Salomon Z-series Bindings review

**kellen** · 03-27-2007, 07:15 PM

I have read a lot about how no has heard anything about the new Z-series bindings from Salomon (Z10,Z12). Since I own two pairs, I'll offer my thoughts in hopes of offering some food for thought to the mags.

Me
I'm 5'7, 150lbs, and ski the whole mountain. I prefer the off-piste, especially trees and varied terrain. I will take the occasional groomer run and rail some arcs, and I'll also do a little mild hucking (5-10ft). I also ski a little park (see note below). I normally run a 7.5 din.

Setup
Boots: Lange World Cup 120, Size 7.5 (300mm BSL)
06/07 169 Seth's with a Z12 at +1 from reccomended (Pow/Charging Ski)
05/06 Atomic Tacora with a Z10 at reccomended (All-mtn/groomer/ice ski)

Overall Thoughts (For those who want the jist right now)
These bindings have been very solid for me this season, with just one flaw (see park skiing note below). I have only released from them when I wanted them to, and have had no pre-release problems. These bindings are largely plastic, but if you need an all metal binding you probably also want something with a higher DIN.

Detailed Thoughts
I first picked up the pair of Z12's when I got my Seth's. I had read a fair amount about the new Z-series, and was satisfied with what I read. So, I decided to give them a go. I have mostly been on Look/Rossi dildo bindings. They treat me well, but at times I wish I had something lighter. Since I consider the seth a little heavier ski, I wanted to save some weight in the binding to offset this.

Initial visual impression was lots of plastic. This has never been a HUGE problem for me, so not a negative in my book. The toe height is not adjustable, and neither are the toe wings. This is a plus and a minus. No more loc-tite on the wings, but also no adjusting the toe height for worn down boots, etc.

First couple days on them were rock solid - NO problems whatsoever. As mentioned above, I am both light, and don't really huck the gnar too much, but I ski aggressively enough to notice or exploit a major flaw in a binder. I noticed no flex, slop, or looseness in these.

With a solid experience in the books, I got another pair for the Tacora's, which were a ski for non-powder days or where I was just cruising around the mountain and not charging.

These bindings are great in that you CAN click in pretty easy on powder days. I always clear my boot so as not to stress the binding by squeezing in a snow-caked boot into it. However, in some weird emergency situation, I could see this helping someone.

In terms of releasing, I have had no problems with pre-releasing. When I actually wanted the binding to release, release was very smooth, and I could feel some elasticity, although I don't think its as elastic as a Look/Rossi dildo binder. I found a vertical heel release was a bit more harsh compared to a lateral toe, but it's a not a deal breaker for me.

Now the one fault with this binding deals with a combination of a switch (backwards) landing and vertical heel release. I ski park a fair amount, but mostly on a pair of Armada AR6's with a PX12. Occasionally I will run the Seth's through the park though, and this is how I discovered the one flaw. On a bad switch landing where I landed way in the backseat (way towards the front of the ski), I vertically released, which released the heel as well as the brake, and with the momentum going backwards, the brake dug in and snapped not only itself, but also the plastic mounting plate.

This is problem is possible on almost any binding, but I've heard of this happening to more than a few people with z-series bindings. In short, if you ski a lot of park or land backwards a lot, this is probably not the binder for you.

In conclusion, I give this binding the lightweight approval. Obviously with the highest model only going to a 12 din, not too many big guys are going to be skiing this, but the 10 din would be a perfect girlfriend binding.

**BFobar** · 03-27-2007, 07:22 PM

YAY! relevant post for my questions earlier.

**bossass** · 03-27-2007, 09:46 PM

I've got a pair on my Commie's and the combo is stupid light. Like as light or lighter than my Jak Team/freeride+ combo. A friend who runs a tech shop and knows a Solly warranty dept. worker, says there have been issues with this bindings Ti track bending. I was thinking, however, it may be possible to retrofit a pair with some tracks off a non-ti binding and not lose much of the lightweight advantage.

Overall, I'm pleased. I don't completely trust them, but if they break I'll just swap out for some burlier binders.

**skimasterflex** · 03-27-2007, 10:10 PM

I am not surprised that they work well for you, at a 7.5 din. But is this really something they can run a 14 spring in and revolutionize the freeride market with? Somehow I still doubt it. I would love to be wrong though cuz they are so amazingly light.

bossass have you put them to the test yet? How do they hold up at higher dins on bigger skis like your commies?

**soul_skier** · 03-27-2007, 10:53 PM

if/when I get the 202 lotus 138s, I'm seriously thinking about putting the z12s on them for the ultimate lightweight pow setup, any thoughts from those expiereced with them

**scb67** · 03-27-2007, 11:14 PM

here is something I have tried...the z12 Smartrack mounted on a set of 06/07 Gots. I have the Smartrack plate mounted in the middle of the FR/FS mark. I can move the bindings up to 4cm either way...take 30sec to adjust...back for pow....ect....As long as you do not have a huge issue with the added lift, the system works great. I am 6' 180 lbs...din set to 10....NO problems with pre release or durabiity (so far??)...50 days or so on the setup...

**MrDirt** · 03-28-2007, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by soul_skier

if/when I get the 202 lotus 138s, I'm seriously thinking about putting the z12s on them for the ultimate lightweight pow setup, any thoughts from those expiereced with them

Unless you are less than 150lbs. I'd have to strongly recommend against that setup. The Z12 binding is designed around the CHILDRENS quadrax toe and is almost entirely plastic. It may be light, but if it isn't a touring binding, then whats the big deal about a little extra weight? Your DPS ski will still be light where it needs to be -- on the outer portion of its moment of inertia. There is absolutely no need to have a strict alpine setup that light. Stick a race stock "insert favorite brand here" on those beasts and at least secure yourself some peace of mind. If you've decided on the 202 lotus 138, I have to venture a guess that you'll be skiing places where that extra confidence may come in handy.

**ulty_guy** · 03-28-2007, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by scb67

here is something I have tried...the z12 Smartrack mounted on a set of 06/07 Gots. I have the Smartrack plate mounted in the middle of the FR/FS mark. I can move the bindings up to 4cm either way...take 30sec to adjust...back for pow....ect....As long as you do not have a huge issue with the added lift, the system works great. I am 6' 180 lbs...din set to 10....NO problems with pre release or durabiity (so far??)...50 days or so on the setup...

Hmmm interesting, where can I score a spare set of smartracks?

**mikemcee** · 03-28-2007, 08:48 AM

Like SCB, I am also 6'1, 180 and have Z12's mounted on my Goats and set at 10..Different only in that they're mounted on the FR line with the stock track. No issues at all, pre release, breakage or otherwise with them this winter. I may not be a race stock needy type of skier but I find these binders, and the light setup works really well for me.

**weibo** · 03-28-2007, 09:02 AM

[QUOTE=MrDirt;1203096) The Z12 binding is designed around the CHILDRENS quadrax toe and is almost entirely plastic.[/QUOTE]

Where did you track down this information? I would assume they are designed off the adult Quadrax toe but please enlighten me on this.

**philippeR** · 03-28-2007, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by MrDirt

Unless you are less than 150lbs. I'd have to strongly recommend against that setup. The Z12 binding is designed around the CHILDRENS quadrax toe and is almost entirely plastic. It may be light, but if it isn't a touring binding, then whats the big deal about a little extra weight? Your DPS ski will still be light where it needs to be -- on the outer portion of its moment of inertia. There is absolutely no need to have a strict alpine setup that light. Stick a race stock "insert favorite brand here" on those beasts and at least secure yourself some peace of mind. If you've decided on the 202 lotus 138, I have to venture a guess that you'll be skiing places where that extra confidence may come in handy.

The light construction seems worrysome to many people. But I haven't heard any significant reports of failure so far. After quite some time now.
The Z12 seems good to me actualy.

**MrDirt** · 03-28-2007, 10:29 AM

For women and lighter men, I don't see anything wrong with the binding. It's just for people that I assume are skiing places where having confidence in your equipment goes beyond, "I hope it'll release before I blow my knee." For a lot of the hard charging dudes on here, I would not consider the Z-series a trustworthy binding unless it was just on their groomer ski or something.

Regarding the quadrax toe... grab a Z-series binding... hold it up in front of your face... open your eyes.

For further proof, check out salomon's website and click on related technologies for the z-series bindings. All of the adult, and adult/junior quadrax bindings will show up.

**raj** · 03-28-2007, 01:04 PM

[QUOTE=kellen;1202772]
Me
I'm 5'7, 150lbs, and ski the whole mountain. I prefer the off-piste, especially trees and varied terrain. I will take the occasional groomer run and rail some arcs, and I'll also do a little mild hucking (5-10ft). I also ski a little park (see note below). I normally run a 7.5 din.

QUOTE]

Hey Kellen thanks. My stats and skiing is very similar so that is very useful to me.I have a couple of serious questions and not trying to be an ass
1) You are using both Look axials and Solly bindings. Doesn't this throw your balance completely off. I use Look/ Rossi axials (older style) on all my skis and they all come with 7 mm ramp between toe/ heel (even the flat/ jib ones). Salomons have 2mm. I found the Look/ Rossi to be way too much ramp and had to spend considerable effort with shims to balnce it (almost flat). Complete PITA. I have done back to back runs on same skis and bindings with this change and the difference is HUGE. So either one needs lots of ramp or little based on one's anatomy but how can you guys change bindings on a daily basis and still ski fine. I can understand that given time the human body can adapt to anything but that would take months of skiing..

2) Why are these better than the cheap Look/ Rossi Nova/ Axium bindings? The main reason I got my axials was the claimed elasticity but if Salomon doesn't haev that and you are not getting either high DIN or mostly metal, why not buy the Looks which are MUCH cheaper and very light for DIN 10 bindings.

Again, not trying to be an ass, you did a very good detailed review and I am interested in the Salomon for my next bindings due to ramp so the question.

**cooltsi** · 03-28-2007, 02:15 PM

5mm of ramp angle never threw me off in a day. I'll swap skis during a day, granted never more than twice(three pair) with Tyrolias, Look axials and Salomons and I've never once considered that an issue. If you can't adjust your style for a bit of change in the ramp angle you need to see an instructor for some additional help.

**bossass** · 03-28-2007, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by MrDirt

For women and lighter men, I don't see anything wrong with the binding. It's just for people that I assume are skiing places where having confidence in your equipment goes beyond, "I hope it'll release before I blow my knee." For a lot of the hard charging dudes on here, I would not consider the Z-series a trustworthy binding unless it was just on their groomer ski or something.

Regarding the quadrax toe... grab a Z-series binding... hold it up in front of your face... open your eyes.

For further proof, check out salomon's website and click on related technologies for the z-series bindings. All of the adult, and adult/junior quadrax bindings will show up.

So, are you basing your opinion on experience or just what you think? Just curious.

**KillerMonkey** · 03-28-2007, 04:34 PM

They are kinda expensive for a 12din binding. With SAC flooding the market with p12's at less than $100, these things dont seem justified in my opinion.

**DtEW** · 03-28-2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by MrDirt

Regarding the quadrax toe... grab a Z-series binding... hold it up in front of your face... open your eyes.

For further proof, check out salomon's website and click on related technologies for the z-series bindings. All of the adult, and adult/junior quadrax bindings will show up.

Salomon has been working on the Z-binding architecture for awhile. It wasn't just a jump from "Children's Quadrax" to Z12. Somewhere in my garage is a pair of Sollies with a S711's, and that's been already evolved/beefed-up from the old Quadraxes. Not that the recently-old S7** bindings were targeted at anybody other than intermediates, but there's no particular history of failure. It was decent and worked decently for its intended purpose. The Z-bindings are obviously beefed-up ("hold it up to your face... open your eyes") and tweaked from the S7** bindings, so I don't see why having distant roots in the Quadrax design is such a problem. You do know that every good binding design that we have these days evolved from some prior design that we would now consider downright dangerous, no?

Granted, we the Z-series itself has no track record of yet. But there's no good reason to prejudice against it... yet.

**bossass** · 03-28-2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by DtEW

Salomon has been working on the Z-binding architecture for awhile. It wasn't just a jump from "Children's Quadrax" to Z12. Somewhere in my garage is a pair of Sollies with a S711's, and that's been already evolved/beefed-up from the old Quadraxes. Not that the recently-old S7** bindings were targeted at anybody other than intermediates, but there's no particular history of failure. It was decent and worked decently for its intended purpose. The Z-bindings are obviously beefed-up ("hold it up to your face... open your eyes") and tweaked from the S7** bindings, so I don't see why having distant roots in the Quadrax design is such a problem. You do know that every good binding design that we have these days evolved from some prior design that we would now consider downright dangerous, no?

Granted, we the Z-series itself has no track record of yet. But there's no good reason to prejudice against it... yet.

That's a good point. The structure of the Z binding is completely new, with new processes for making parts. I discussed this thoroughly in "new shit has come to light" thread. The only thing that makes it "based off the quadrax" is the sharing of screw patterns and the front screw on that little sled thing. Marker, Geze (Rossi), and Look have all used three hole toes in the past, with the Geze (Rossi 180 Pro) pig toe the most similar to this new Z12. Just ask Damien Sanders about the pig toe. Torsionally rigid and strong, which was solly's intentions, to compliment fat skis.

Look P12 vs Solly Z12: huge weight diff. The P12 doesn't exactly have a flawless reliabilty record. Like I said, earlier too. The problems I've heard from the Zti is the rail bending in the heel. Haven't heard any toe problems yet. The rollers do rattle when a boot is not engaged, which is a bit unnerving, but that stops when you clamp a boot in there.

**MrDirt** · 03-28-2007, 08:29 PM

I have no personal experience with this binding except what I see from my customers. I've yet to see any Z-series bindings break, although I've never seen any well-known hard chargers run this binding. Sure, it's probably going to be okay for the majority of people on the majority of all-mountain setups. I'm not trying to pull a Rascal King (I'm kind of surprised that fuck stick hasn't chimed in on this thread yet) and badmouth salomon products. I run 916's on my skis and love them. I'm simply stating that for peoples' "big mountain" setups, there are more appropriate choices for bindings. I'll stick to my guns about being better off safe than sorry.

**bossass** · 03-28-2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by MrDirt

I have no personal experience with this binding except what I see from my customers. I've yet to see any Z-series bindings break, although I've never seen any well-known hard chargers run this binding. Sure, it's probably going to be okay for the majority of people on the majority of all-mountain setups. I'm not trying to pull a Rascal King (I'm kind of surprised that fuck stick hasn't chimed in on this thread yet) and badmouth salomon products. I run 916's on my skis and love them. I'm simply stating that for peoples' "big mountain" setups, there are more appropriate choices for bindings. I'll stick to my guns about being better off safe than sorry.

That makes sense, I was just wondering if you've heard anything specific. I care because I have a pair of these. I run 916s and P18 too, and I don't mind the weight, but a set of Z12ti on an already light ski (Commie) is a whole new mind blowing experience. If I knew they would be relatively realiable in the long haul, I might switch exclusively because it's stupid fun to flick around a ski that big.

**arem86** · 03-29-2007, 01:47 AM

I've heard so many mixed reviews on these things that I'm not sure what to think. I was seriously considering them for my JP vs. Juliens cause that setup for powder jumping would be insanely light, and I'm only 160lbs so I doubt I'd break them in half or anything, I don't charge as hard as half the people on these boards I bet... but I land and ski switch alot, and don't like what I've heard about the Z series bindings and hard switch landings, which I sometimes take. Jury is still out for me, the new one they have coming out is supposed to have a Z toe and 916 heel though, that one perks my interest.

**ulty_guy** · 03-29-2007, 02:02 AM

Slightly off track, but don't confuse the older, discontinued p series look with the newer and crappier px series. When I grilled a main dynastar rep about the px, he defended for a while and then finall broke down like a bad matlock defendant on the stand and confessed to never skiing the px cause it's a pos and that the older p (and of couse the p18) series was far superior.

**kellen** · 03-29-2007, 02:56 AM

I'm going to offer some insight into my personal skiing with these binders.

I wanted to keep the review pretty unbiased and neutral, but I think this might help people.

RE: Ramp Angle
I was on my PX12 mounted Armada's two days ago, and now my Z12 mounted seths for the last two days. I notice no difference at all. There may be some difference in the ramp angle, but I don't notice it.

RE: Big Mtn Use
Not that this is a perfect scientific test, but just today, I hit an 8 footer right into a 40mph+ straight line through chop and crud - NOT a place I would want a binding to explode. No problems at all. Also hit a handful of wind lips and other natural features, many with akward landings, and again, no problems.

I know this does in no way represent the skiing of the majority of skiers here, but I can say in my own skiing, I have been in this binding in many dont-fuck-up spots, and it hasn't let me down.

I am in no way partial to this binding. I am a weight geek, that's really what attracted it to me. Getting them on shop-form nullified the cost for me, but I can understand the price issue (~$260/pair with a 100mm brake).

Hope this helps

**Spats** · 03-29-2007, 03:31 AM

It's great how marketing has turned a low end toepiece (Quadrax) into a high end toepiece (Z12).

I'm not saying it's bad: I've never used one. I'm just saying that if anyone on this board had suggested mounting up a set of Quadrax bindings, they would have been laughed at.

FWIW, the Look/Rossi Axiums are a much better deal. The toepiece is exactly the same as the Pivot toepiece, and the heelpiece is just a regular step-in heelpiece, no better or worse than anyone else's plastic step-in heelpiece. Plus you can get them for dirt cheap. I'd ski them over a Z12 unless someone can show me how the Z12 toe is different than the Quadrax or a midrange Tyrolia.