JH mags: BE CAREFUL!!!

**nhtele** · 02-25-2007, 08:09 PM

Some friends were involved in a slide in one of the Airforce Chutes in Granite ~3pm today. The slope broke on the 4th skier, carrying him from midway down the chute and depositing him on the traverse. He was buried except for head and 1 hand. He sustained a broken femur and was heli'd out.

There were also unconfirmed reports of a 26 y/o male with a punctured lung over in Granite as well.

SkiBumOfVT · 02-25-2007, 08:18 PM

Hope both are alright. Is the snowpack bad in Jackson? I hope not arriving on Wedndesday

**kush1** · 02-25-2007, 08:19 PM

holy shit! hit dead end chute today at about 2:30 today, it was $$$ but we were def being cautious about everything.

Glad that he is "ok" (as in breathing) That terrain is fun as hell to ski, but also one big terrain trap.

**Core Shot** · 02-25-2007, 08:23 PM

Ouch. "Moderate" is only the general advisory. Obviously there are isolated windloaded areas that are higher risk.

That really sucks. At least the heli was free (National Park).

www.jhavalanche.org.

**coolstine** · 02-25-2007, 08:37 PM

it's those lower elevation, sheltered N to NE facing aspects, like all the chutes in Granite, that have been consistently sliding on the bad layers formed in January. this is the 4th femur fx i've heard about or responded to in the past month. be very, very careful with your decisions.

oh yeah, today was sick!

**BigKuba** · 02-25-2007, 08:41 PM

Holy crap, dude. Many +++ vibes and a smooth recovery to those involved. A broken femur definitely blows but there's often much worse news coming out of Granite...

**SherpaStyle** · 02-25-2007, 08:54 PM

Holy crap! That sucks, sounds like things are pretty scary there right now. I've heard about a lot of activity...and I've been trying to minimize communication with JH peeps.

Ouch. "Moderate" is only the general advisory. Obviously there are isolated windloaded areas that are higher risk.

That really sucks. At least the heli was free (National Park).

www.jhavalanche.org.

Moderate means natural slides are unlikely. It doesn't mean the snowpack is stable. It just means a trigger is neccessary to produce an avalanche.

**schwerty** · 02-25-2007, 09:31 PM

Sorry.

Shady Pack out there. I saw lots of folks close to the Pass today skiing shady lines....

Be Safe!

**mntlion** · 02-25-2007, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

At least the heli was free (National Park).

not the way you want to go heli skiing.

play safe, look way above and in lots of layers below you

now is the time when the layers that you forgot about from 8 weeks ago "come alive" again

**Trackhead** · 02-25-2007, 11:27 PM

Interesting with this snowpack that most slides are being triggered on the 3rd or 4th passing. Same here in the Wasatch. Most every slide has been triggered on the magic 3rd or 4th person.

Typical of a faceted snowpack, I guess.

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 12:01 AM

Yes.... as said above the snopack is very unstable. Granite has had quite a bit of slide activity in the last 7-14 days.

New snow always brings everybody out...and the lines that get thrown down are often pretty aggressive, independent of stability. There are many savvy folks, but it seems that there are plenty of folks who just want to rip and have not been studying the pack.

Hope your buddy is OK. Granite, as well all know, is great but very dangerous.

Watch out for people behind you there, especially on the high-traffic lines. Many folks treat it like an extension of the resort (sadly).

The slides in A & Mile-long were pretty damn big (down to the traverse...so even on the traverse you can get affected by people above you).

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by SkiBumOfVT

Hope both are alright. Is the snowpack bad in Jackson? I hope not arriving on Wedndesday

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Interesting with this snowpack that most slides are being triggered on the 3rd or 4th passing. Same here in the Wasatch. Most every slide has been triggered on the magic 3rd or 4th person.

Typical of a faceted snowpack, I guess.

Trackhead--This hasn't been the case for all our slides recently. We've had a number of naturals, at least one remote trigger on the 1st skier, and another ski cut, in addition to the one mentioned above.

The instability is quite aspect- and elevation-dependent...and it's pretty easy to tie back the sliding layers to the weather events we've had in the last 30 days (although 2 granite slides stepped down to the faceted layer--yep, we have depth hoar here).

**rideit** · 02-26-2007, 12:39 AM

Damn, boys, scary...I got the village at noon-thirty today, and I was bitching with wifey about conditions inbounds (I am a spoiled fuck)...I was really, really close to throwing out a casper or granite run, (or cody, but I didn't have my avy gear...) I quit early (3:15 or so) and just rode down to the base...I didn't see or hear any of that action go down!

VIBES to the femur dude...anyone we know?

Kush, you O.K?

Kudos on beatering Fat Bastard, if you are a-o.k, BTW!

$45.00....OUCH!!

**Trackhead** · 02-26-2007, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by upallnight

Trackhead--This hasn't been the case for all our slides recently. We've had a number of naturals, at least one remote trigger on the 1st skier, and another ski cut, in addition to the one mentioned above.

The instability is quite aspect- and elevation-dependent...and it's pretty easy to tie back the sliding layers to the weather events we've had in the last 30 days (although 2 granite slides stepped down to the faceted layer--yep, we have depth hoar here).

Ooops, I just assumed your snowpack had spent most of the winter being thin and marginal like ours.

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Ooops, I just assumed your snowpack had spent most of the winter being thin and marginal like ours.

it has... and we've had a long drought with low temps, then some rain & melt-freeze events.

My main point was that in some of these events one person in a group (e.g., the 4th person on a slope) is hitting the trigger -- but there has been plenty of other activity out there, too. It wouldn't be fair to say the above is the only way slides are being caused. It's been the first skier on some occasions, too.

Just more stuff for those venturing out to be aware of.

Many folks crossing through the boundaries and into the local sidecountry (and even in the popular easily-accessible BC areas) are not *truly* paying attention to the hazard and the snowpack. Discussing conditions with many people on the other side of the gates is downright scary in terms of the (lack of) information on which they are basing decisions. It's mostly "I'm in a group and I assume one of my buddies knows best"-mentality.

I really hate hearing the sound of the heli here in the winter... I hope today was the last time.

**Trackhead** · 02-26-2007, 02:36 AM

UAN,

Sadly, our community was quite delayed in taking a conservative approach. This, after four deaths in two weeks.

The avy center here has been really trying to get the message out. With continual very direct statements in their forecasts. It almost seemed like they were getting frustrated with the communities continued near misses and tragedies.

Hope you guys stay safe up there. Live to ski another day.

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

UAN,

Sadly, our community was quite delayed in taking a conservative approach. This, after four deaths in two weeks.

The avy center here has been really trying to get the message out. With continual very direct statements in their forecasts. It almost seemed like they were getting frustrated with the communities continued near misses and tragedies.

Hope you guys stay safe up there. Live to ski another day.

Yes... I've read some accounts -- terrible news, and I hate hearing it. In addition to sketchy snowpack, it seems that the earlier drough conditions make things worse because people have such a pent-up demand to ski any pow, and the clear weather enables everybody to eye their lines. people (here, and in general) often have their minds made up about what they are going to ski, rather than having a general plan and letting conditions/snowpack dictate the final direction.

It's so easy to go out many days with no knowledge and come home safely -- falling into the impression that one is good at making decisions (but only because slides are *relatively* rare); this is not a substitute for true knowledge.

I hope that some folks reading this thread might think twice before they decide to drop in to a line.

Not saying that people should ski the lines they want....but they should really ask themselves if they've done their homework.

I hope we are done with avy incidents for the year in the US (well, all over).

**kush1** · 02-26-2007, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by rideit

Damn, boys, scary...I got the village at noon-thirty today, and I was bitching with wifey about conditions inbounds (I am a spoiled fuck)...I was really, really close to throwing out a casper or granite run, (or cody, but I didn't have my avy gear...) I quit early (3:15 or so) and just rode down to the base...I didn't see or hear any of that action go down!

VIBES to the femur dude...anyone we know?

Kush, you O.K?

Kudos on beatering Fat Bastard, if you are a-o.k, BTW!

$45.00....OUCH!!

Yeah man, I'm AOK.... had to drop the $45 on a new pass today because i lost it in my crater thursday. (made sure to tuck it in today) Also AKA called me a dumbass, so no more solo missions for that huck or any other exposed areas.......

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by kush1

Yeah man, I'm AOK.... had to drop the $45 on a new pass today because i lost it in my crater thursday. (made sure to tuck it in today) Also AKA called me a dumbass, so no more solo missions for that huck or any other exposed areas.......

hey, kush--
you seem like a really nice guy. sounds like you hit that drop solo, which is cool if done for the right reasons.

you don't have to answer this publicly, but i'm wondering what you thought of stability in general of what you were standing on (and landing in) as well as stability of the slope that is actually above that drop. did you think about how it slid before and what the sliding layer was? is that sliding layer still there? did you feel that the recent conditions (+ new snow) on top of the sliding layer made it more stable.

i'm genuinely curious as i was in that same area today and getting small slopes to slide very easily.... but my main point is to hope that our local skiers are thinking about their lines, snow & consequences...not just whether they are mentally or physically able to ski/huck.

from all i know about yesterday's incident in granite, there was little more than cursory thought given to stability...it was a bunch of talented skiers who have been in the area many times before thinking that that made the line safe. it's a fortunate thing no one was killed.

**mjp** · 02-26-2007, 04:22 PM

If any one has details of the slide please let me know, A. S. is a friend and I have not heard much info at all.

please PM me with any info
thanks
mike

**goldenboy** · 02-26-2007, 04:30 PM

mjp-

I'm waiting for a phone call regarding AS, i'll let you know if I hear anything. I really hope he's ok, they just had a kid in Aug.

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by MrDirt

How much do you know?

i know less than the 4 people who were there, as i was not there, but i know the general location and i will probably be there tomorrow to take a look at the crown.

all pepi's guys, right. were you one of them? what have you heard/do you know?

**MrDirt** · 02-26-2007, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by upallnight

i know less than the 4 people who were there, as i was not there, but i know the general location and i will probably be there tomorrow to take a look at the crown.

all pepi's guys, right. were you one of them? what have you heard/do you know?

Supergaper posted that under my name. I wasn't part of the group out there. I've heard the majority of the details but I'll leave it up to him to answer since he was there.

**upallnight** · 02-26-2007, 05:18 PM

would love to hear more. i couldn't get over there today, and it might be useless to head over to the site tomorrow given the new snow.

it will be informative to hear what, if any, analysis was done -- and what lead them to believe things were stable (i.e. if they got favorable results from some tests) so everyone can learn.

**pechelman** · 02-26-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by upallnight

would love to hear more. i couldn't get over there today, and it might be useless to head over to the site tomorrow given the new snow.

it will be informative to hear what, if any, analysis was done -- and what lead them to believe things were stable (i.e. if they got favorable results from some tests) so everyone can learn.

along these lines, there seems to be more than just a few first hand reports-knowledge of avies, questionable stability, whoomphing, critical decision making, good discussion, armchair qb'ing etc here on this board.

might be very worth while to compile a "Snowy Torrents of TGR" thread in the Slide Zone and get it stickied.