EHP vs Spats: A comparison from someone who has skied both

[upallnight]

I just got back in from an afternoon of riding my EHP 193s, and I figured I'd write a preliminary report as folks have been curious for comparisons of the non-traditional shape/sidecut skis.

Some info:
* I have experience with Spats over a 3-year period; they are mounted w/ Freerides. You could say I'm pretty familiar with them.
* I mounted NX21s on the EHPs last night; some of my comments could be related to the NX21 vs Freeride, and since I don't have other experience with NX21s other than today I can't separate the two.
* I only rode 13k vertical feet in the few hours I was out, so this is definitely NOT authoritative. I will post more as I spend more time riding the EHPs.
* I am impressed with what I've felt about the construction of the ski based on drilling them and tuning them, though obviously only time will tell how they fare in terms of durability.

Riding conditions
Today's conditions turned out to be a pretty good test of the ski. We had quite a bit of snow yesterday, capped by some more snow today (higher elevations) and sleet/rain (lower elevations). I was able to ski some deeper leftovers (heavy & wet) from yesterday, some windbuff, some raincrust, soft-ish moguls, avy debris (underneath Alta 3), and hardpack/groomed terrain.

It wasn't the deep & light stuff that the ski is made for, but you know it's going to be good in that stuff. in some ways today's conditions make for a more interesting review.

Mounting position
I see exactly what Z meant by their forward-mount (Z posted his review here
). Not only do they look far forward, they feel even more forward as you have less edge to work with in front of your toe. That said, I felt the mounting point was on-the-money. It could be that Z is used to a mount further back (as he said in his review), and it could be that I am using AT boots/bindings and that I also prefer a mount generally a bit closer to a center mount. I dunno. For me, it didn't take too long to find the sweet spot.

Impressions of the EHP 193
First off the gondi, I had some hardpack & moguls. I have to say I was impressed from the first turn. They sliced & diced through that terrain better than you'd expect from a ski that is 112 at the waist. I veered off into some deeper, wet pow and they felt good.

Wide-open windbuff was a blast; because my knee's isn't back to 100% yet and is especially sore after about 15 days in a row, I wasn't able to go top-speed, and I couldn't find the speed limit of the EHPs. According to my GPS, the max I hit was 43mph today, with no sign of squirrely-ness. They definitely liked to go fast through any type of fresh snow that I encountered.

They handled the bit of raincrust well, and did carve alright, although on the firmest stuff I encountered they a bit more dodgy (but just "wide ski dodgy", not like a ski w/ reverse sidecut from heel to tail).

The tips were not particularly floppy through the cut-up terrain and the skis felt stable -- and inspired confidence from that stability -- all around. Again, I'm a little limited by the leg right now but there was no indication that these skis would not handle whatever I threw at them.

I want to take them out again on some BIG terrain where I can turn to change direction, not to scrub speed.

Burning question
Was I impressed? Hell yeah.

Will I sell my Spats? Why do you ask such foolish questions?! I know this is probably the key question for many people. My answer is definitely "not yet" -- and maybe never. In deep snow and tighter terrain, I feel that the Spats have maneuverability and the ability to scrub speed in a way I've never experience on another ski, including the EHP. At a slower speed in deeper snow, you can smear the EHP more than a ski w/ trad sidecut, but it's still a big ski to push around. Tight terrain is not their forte, based on my LIMITED experience. (I'm going to test this ALOT more.)

Conclusion (for now)
The EHPs do MANY things better than Spats, but they may not be as good in that one regard. I'd say the two skis are more "different" than better/worse.

Preliminary report card:
Top speed: EHPs get the nod
Pow/windbuff: They're different-feeling skis, both fun
Crust: Both solid, maybe a slight nod to the Spat
Cut-up pow/crud: Again...different.
Trees: Spats
Anything firm: EHPs

This could be my go-to inbounds ski @ Jackson...and a ski I'd want to have for even bigger, open terrain. I rode my 190 Gotamas most inbounds days last year; I could see them getting bumped.

More to come...
I'll be able to report soon on these two skis vs. dp 120s and dp 138s. There's alot of info around about many of the new skis, but it doesn't seem like there are many people that have been able to try them all to make an informed comparison.

[stuckathuntermtn]

nice vinal collection!
o and nice review!

[XtrPickels]

UAL for president? Hooray
Thanks for the input. Especially looking forward to ehp v 120 review

[kidwoo]

So you gonna sell your spats now?


Thanks for the review....it's good to get some input on these things. I would be content enough to leave it there but jesus......you STILL have some 120s and 138s to look forward to.

need a roomate?

[Blurred]

Very nice review!

As far as the nx21? Welcome to the darkside.

[WWCD]

nice vinal collection!

Quantity is not the same as quality.

[upallnight]

nice vinal collection!
o and nice review!

i'm a big vinyl junkie...way bigger than ski junkie.

need a roomate?

i need like 10 roommates to pay for skis (and records).

Very nice review!

As far as the nx21? Welcome to the darkside.

glad people like the reviews; i hope it offers some real-world useful info.

they skied very well, but the only way i could give any meaningful insight into NX21 vs Freeride would have been for me to ski EHPs. I certainly can't comment on the binding quality alone after having skied them on only one ski and only a few runs at that. In time I'll probably get more of a feel for the binding and can separate out some comments.

I liked them for downhill. I think I might like them less if I had to switch touring modes on them.

I've now done freehand mounts on Naxos twice (once for my wife at the end of last season). They're pretty easy.

[Kya]

Nice Dude! Did you ever mount those 120's with Dynafit? Any test drives? I still really want to try that on the Iggies, but Kenai is worried about too many holes. She might be right! You shall have an awesome winter!

Quantity is not the same as quality.

EHP 193, Lotus 120, Lotus 138, Spatula, and who knows what else. I think these qualify as quality.

[WWCD]

EHP 193, Lotus 120, Lotus 138, Spatula, and who knows what else. I think these qualify as quality.

I am well aware of that.

I was referring to stuckathuntermtns assessment of the vinyl collection when only about 5 of them were visible.

[bossass]

nice vinal collection!
o and nice review!

It's all Barry Manilow.

[Bullet]

Nice write-up. Both you and Z stated they seemed to be mounted too far forward, but you adjusted. I felt the same way about the 190s I skied last year.

Looking at your photo, is your boot center mark in-line with the mark on the ski? I'm assuming the little tick-mark to the left of the 1 in 193 is intended to be boot center. Just looking at your photo, it would appear that's how you mounted. If so, I think I'm going to mount mine 1-2cm back based on your's and Z's reviews.

When I laid mine down next the Big Daddy, I got the visual that the friction pad of the Naxo's would be best positioned to cover the top part of the EHP lettering, if not mounted directly ontop of the lettering, on the ski. In your photo, you are forward of that point. Just curious to get more detail on your and Z's opion before I commit to that.

Thanks.

[upallnight]

Quantity is not the same as quality.

this is true -- and what was visible in that shot wouldn't count as quantity, either.

i can assure you there is both, though.

[upallnight]

Nice write-up. Both you and Z stated they seemed to be mounted too far forward, but you adjusted. I felt the same way about the 190s I skied last year.

Looking at your photo, is your boot center mark in-line with the mark on the ski? Just eye-balling it in your photo - it appears that you mounted forward of that mark. But it's hard to tell without a close-up.

When I laid mine down next the Big Daddy, I got the visual that the friction pad of the Naxo's would be best positioned to cover the top part of the EHP lettering, if not mounted directly ontop of the lettering, on the ski. In your photo, you are forward of that point. Just curious to get more detail on your and Z's opion before I commit to that.

Thanks.

my boot center is mounted on the line, so the position you see is for a medium NX21 with a 300mm boot sole.

if i had a shorter boot sole, the naxo (anti?)friction pad would have been closer to covering the EHP.

personally, i like to try the mounting point on which they were designed before testing an alternate position. i'm not certain you can compare the mounting points of the BD vs. the EHP... they're quite different skis. it could be that you prefer the EHPs mounted even further back...i dunno.

for me, for today, the mount felt right. i would think that mounting further back affects two things (adversely?):
1) the tip "ramp" is lower, meaning that as a % of length from toe to tip, there is less ramp with a mount toward the rear;
2) the rear/tail sidecut is affected, meaning they might not carve the way they do with the mount a bit further.

obviously, i haven't tested this, and based on my feelings today i'm unlikely to change the mounting position.

[Z]

Nice write-up. Both you and Z stated they seemed to be mounted too far forward, but you adjusted. I felt the same way about the 190s I skied last year.

Looking at your photo, is your boot center mark in-line with the mark on the ski? I'm assuming the little tick-mark to the left of the 1 in 193 is intended to be boot center. Just looking at your photo, it would appear that's how you mounted. If so, I think I'm going to mount mine 1-2cm back based on your's and Z's reviews.

When I laid mine down next the Big Daddy, I got the visual that the friction pad of the Naxo's would be best positioned to cover the top part of the EHP lettering, if not mounted directly ontop of the lettering, on the ski. In your photo, you are forward of that point. Just curious to get more detail on your and Z's opion before I commit to that.

Thanks.

Good review UAN..

Bullet - You and me have a similiar ski history-I skied 193 Big Daddies every day last year and fucking loved them. If I was to ski on them this year I was going to mount them -1. That said, the EHPs mounted where they are, are SO money in trees (spat like swivel type deal). Im gonna ski on them the next three days in bounds to dial in the hardpack-cutup pow performance. I really can't give you a definitive opinion yet but I can in a few days.....

[upallnight]

Nice Dude! Did you ever mount those 120's with Dynafit? Any test drives? I still really want to try that on the Iggies, but Kenai is worried about too many holes. She might be right! You shall have an awesome winter!

if only the presence of fat skis could influence the weather patterns...

haven't received the 120s yet, but when i do i will mount comforts to them.

i dunno about FFFs w/ comforts, which amounts to taking a super-heavy ski and putting a light binding on them. i think the iggies could handle multiple mounts based on my experience with other models in their line-up....but i would think you want something wide & light.

if you have the luxury of trying it out, why not? you can always remount whatever bindings you have on there if you don't like it. if it were me, i'd go with a lighter fat ski and leave the FFFs for the burly bindings in your stable. just one man's opinion.

how torsionally stiff are the FFFs? something to consider when you make your decision: as a very torsionally stiff binding, i find that the combination of torsionally-stiff ski + dynafit can result in some foot pain/fatigue on firm terrain.

[upallnight]

That said, the EHPs mounted where they are, are SO money in trees (spat like swivel type deal). Im gonna ski on them the next three days in bounds to dial in the hardpack-cutup pow performance. I really can't give you a definitive opinion yet but I can in a few days.....

Z... it wasn't clear to me if you've skied Spats before. In your EHP review you said you didn't want Spats for a certain reason, but I wasn't sure if you'd tried them or just ruled them out of hand.

The reason I ask is that I found they were not better than Spats in trees, which is where Spats really shine (in my opinion); if Spats have a limitation it's at full-throttle.

I'd believe that EHPs in trees would be miles ahead of any long fat ski with a traditional sidecut.

Just wonderin'.

[Bullet]

Thanks for the input. It's going to be tough call. If I rememer right, in Zs review he said he liked to drive the ski - as do I. With that said, I like having a bit more tip out front. It keeps me driving forward and balanced. But I also don't want to compromise the skis performance design.

I played around with various measurements tonight. At 3.5 cms back, they had the visual feeling of ski that only wanted to go top speed in wide-open spaces. Center, felt like there wasn't enought tip out front. But then I put the Big Daddy down next to it and clicked in. They didn't seem to have enough tip out front either - even though I know that not to be the case. Oh, the confusion.

Please post more impressions as you have more fun on them. Looks like it's going to be another month before we'll have enough snow for me to even worry about mounting them. I'm reading your's and Z's reviews carefully.

Thanks

[upallnight]

I played around with various measurements tonight. At 3.5 cms back, they had the visual feeling of ski that only wanted to go top speed in wide-open spaces. Center, felt like there wasn't enought tip out front. But then I put the Big Daddy down next to it and clicked in. They didn't seem to have enough tip out front either - even though I know that not to be the case. Oh, the confusion.

my feeling after skiing them is that they could handle the speed without being mounted further back, even in cut-up stuff. this could be do to the tip rocker (they didn't really get deflected much when i was driving them), but i don't know for sure.

it would be optimal if i'd have ridden BDs, but i've never been on them. i just think that with these newer designs mounting positions *may* not translate.

stay tuned.

[phUnk]

Thread voted 5 for awesome information. Nice work upallnight!

[WWCD]

this is true -- and what was visible in that shot wouldn't count as quantity, either.

i can assure you there is both, though.

Having caught a glipse into the way you purchase things, there is no doubt in my mind that this is true.

And I hope I haven't cunted the thread up too much. I'm hoping to get a pair and am very pleased with the reviews. Good work.

[Kya]

I am well aware of that.

I was referring to stuckathuntermtns assessment of the vinyl collection when only about 5 of them were visible.

Oops my bad! Didn't even notice all the records. I was all about the skis. Sorry. I left my foot in my mouth until about 4:20 today.

UAL: Good feedback there about the mounting options.

[stuckathuntermtn]

i meant nice as in "you seem to have amasssed a large vinal collection, get a fucking ipod" :P

[upallnight]

i meant nice as in "you seem to have amasssed a large vinal collection, get a fucking ipod" :P

i've got one... but i actually care about the music and the sound quality, hence the vinyl.

one sad thing is that all new formats (at least initially) offered the promise of higher resolution (even CD, though the initial implementation turned out to be a disaster)....EXCEPT mp3. it's compression for compression's sake. a generation is growing up with no reference for how things should sound and they will tolerate 128kbps mp3s as "how things should be."

it's a shame, really.

[Squatch]

meh. I have a very limited vinyl collection, and while I admit that it sounds the best of all my formats, mp3 is far more convenient. There is no way I could listen to music the way i do know via vinyl. Cost is the biggest factor. Storage size is a close second. And who wants to change sides every 25 minutes? Not me. I'd rather just sit on the couch and control my stereo wirelessly.

[ptavv]

UAN, does NMP3s mean something to you? If yeah, it's a small internet world. If no, there's someone with your same user name some place.