Tree Wells--or--How to Stay Alive When "Holy Shit it's Dumping!"

**rippah** · 11-27-2006, 08:20 AM

As some of you may know the PNW has been getting pounded with snow and it just keeps coming!

Baker had 3 in-bounds fatalities last year alone--2 of them were NARSID (Non-Avalanche Related Snow Immersion Deaths). The folks at Baker came up with the best tree-well information advisory I've ever read...

It may pay for us all to refresh our awareness of this very real problem before running off to schralp all those fresh lines out there. You can read about it by clicking here.

Buddy up. Stay close. Ski smart. Have fun.

That is all.

r.

**Blurred** · 11-27-2006, 09:20 AM

I clicked through that pretty quick, but I didn't see anywhere telling you how to get out of the tree well. When it's happened to me, If I have no help, I'll remain calm and use my pole to click out of my bindings. Tougher upside down, but sometimes it's gotta be done. Snowboarders on the other hand.........

**frorider** · 11-27-2006, 09:27 AM

FWIW, towards the end i found this small section:

Have a plan of what you will do if you go down. The following steps may help:

Resist the urge to struggle violently. In tree well experiments people found that the more they struggled, the deeper they sank and the more quickly they became immobilized.

Make a breathing space around your face. Then move your body carefully in a rocking manner Instead of panicking, try first to hollow out the snow and give you space and air.

Stay calm. Experts advise to stay calm while waiting for assistance as this helps conserves air and extend your time of survival. Hopefully, your partner will have seen you go down and will come to your rescue. If not, your chances of survival are improved if you maintain your air space.

i've dug out friends from tree well inversions. people panic in those situations.

**Rontele** · 11-27-2006, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Snowboarders on the other hand.........

It is called natural selection and thank god Darwin got it right!

**Cirquerider** · 11-27-2006, 09:58 AM

A treewell incident is the main reason I got involved in the Covert / Anarchist group buy. As soon as you fall in, the light snow crystals seem to get sucked into your airway. If you are able to clear enough space for air and spit out the plug, as soon as you move, more snow falls down. Avalung just seems like it would let you deal with the situation without that worry. Anyway, the problem is real and you don't need to be far in the side or back country to be affected. Those incidents last year killed very experienced and good skiers.

**Buzzworthy** · 11-27-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Snowboarders on the other hand.........

This one hits home. Got upside down in a tree well on the snowboard. Nobody still there, tried to keep my head up and scouch the board around the tree to get some leverage to pull myself up. Board got caught on something underneath and my knee popped. Rode two more runs after some initial bad pain and then quit for the day.

Lacerated the fat pad above the knee cap. Scoped to basically vacuum out the crap in there and get sewn up.

I have 323 emails.

I'll read the Tree Well page later.

**MOHSHSIHd** · 11-27-2006, 10:15 AM

when its really deep you dont even need trees to get buried......wolf creek last year was scary....fell over a couple times and need to be dug out while choking on the snow that kept filling my airspace...

**SquawMan** · 11-27-2006, 10:47 AM

Walkie talkies are a must-have item now, imho

you can't use one if you're upside down in a tree well, I know, but your friends can use them to mobilize a search party to find a missing buddy or to tell the person in your group who is above the fallen skier where he or she went down

you can also use them to help locate the missing person by calling out and hearing for the transmission on their end once you're in the general area

worth their weight in gold, expecially since cell phone reception in the mountains is spotty at best

(also good for inbounds trash talking, but that's another story)

**DBdude** · 11-27-2006, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by SquawMan

Walkie talkies are a must-have item now, imho

you can't use one if you're upside down in a tree well, I know, but your friends can use them to mobilize a search party to find a missing buddy or to tell the person in your group who is above the fallen skier where he or she went down

you can also use them to help locate the missing person by calling out and hearing for the transmission on their end once you're in the general area

worth their weight in gold, expecially since cell phone reception in the mountains is spotty at best

(also good for inbounds trash talking, but that's another story)

good point. never thought of that

**Cirquerider** · 11-27-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

I clicked through that pretty quick, but I didn't see anywhere telling you how to get out of the tree well. When it's happened to me, If I have no help, I'll remain calm and use my pole to click out of my bindings. Tougher upside down, but sometimes it's gotta be done. Snowboarders on the other hand.........

This seems like such a good idea until you try it. First, every movement brings snow into your face and airway. Every time you try to use your arms to push upward to get into a position to use your ski poles or see your ski heels, you just sink farther in and more inverted. Your poles are probably trapped under your body or tangled in the tree. If you're lucky, your pole straps release or were not on because otherwise your hands are trapped as well, keeping you from making and protecting an airway. If your bindings are set on a lower din you MIGHT be able to twist out. Otherwise, you better hope the buddy you were skiing with sees you are missing and either backtracks to help, or doesn't miss you on the way down. You can yell your fool head off, but under the snow, you can't be heard even 10 feet away.

**icanseeformiles(andmiles)** · 11-27-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

I clicked through that pretty quick, but I didn't see anywhere telling you how to get out of the tree well. When it's happened to me, If I have no help, I'll remain calm and use my pole to click out of my bindings. Tougher upside down, but sometimes it's gotta be done. Snowboarders on the other hand.........

Originally Posted by Cirquerider

This seems like such a good idea until you try it. First, every movement brings snow into your face and airway. Every time you try to use your arms to push upward to get into a position to use your ski poles or see your ski heels, you just sink farther in and more inverted. Your poles are probably trapped under your body or tangled in the tree. If you're lucky, your pole straps release or were not on because otherwise your hands are trapped as well, keeping you from making and protecting an airway. If your bindings are set on a lower din you MIGHT be able to twist out. Otherwise, you better hope the buddy you were skiing with sees you are missing and either backtracks to help, or doesn't miss you on the way down. You can yell your fool head off, but under the snow, you can't be heard even 10 feet away.

You know, CR, I'm thinking the moisture content of the snow can be a major contributor of the ability to move in a tree well. I've had to pop out upside down (a number of years ago), and was able to move my arms to do so. Maybe the dryness of Colorado powder is a contributing factor.

**scottski63** · 11-27-2006, 04:00 PM

One of the scariest moments of my life. You think that you can avoid panic but in the real situation its pretty hard to stay calm.

**Art Shirk** · 11-27-2006, 04:11 PM

Always a good idea to have your straps OFF. I have only had one scary experience in a tree well but the fact that my hands were free was priceless.

Also, if your poles are free from your body and not buried, you can cross them and hold them both in one hand and use them like a snowshoe for your hand allowing you to push up out of the snow--a technique that saved me.

**shera** · 11-27-2006, 04:17 PM

I never, ever use pole straps.

**TeleHoar** · 11-27-2006, 04:39 PM

Tree wells are just nature's way of thinning out the overpopulation of snowboarders.

**mjk462** · 11-27-2006, 04:47 PM

evil telehoar!

this stuff scares me, but thanks for the information. Being my 2nd season of snowboarding coming up, I'm always learning new things and I never knew about this stuff. Aves scare me, but so do this =[

**icanseeformiles(andmiles)** · 11-27-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by commonlaw

Always a good idea to have your straps OFF. I have only had one scary experience in a tree well but the fact that my hands were free was priceless.

Also, if your poles are free from your body and not buried, you can cross them and hold them both in one hand and use them like a snowshoe for your hand allowing you to push up out of the snow--a technique that saved me.

Originally Posted by SheRa

I never, ever use pole straps.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I had one really scary slide for life, that if I wasn't wearing pole straps, I wouldn't have still had the pole for a self-arrest.

**hutash** · 11-27-2006, 05:00 PM

I always remove my pole straps when skiing trees for this reason and the fact I value my shoulder sockets. I have had baskets hang up in branches, and while it is a pain to walk back up to get them, it beats yanking your shoulder out of joint.

Deep pow can be a serious problem even with out tree wells. A boarder die at Mammoth two seasons go, upside down in deep pow, just off the groomers. I know it was just a boarder, but it is still sad.

**icanseeformiles(andmiles)** · 11-27-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

I always remove my pole straps when skiing trees for this reason and the fact I value my shoulder sockets. I have had baskets hang up in branches, and while it is a pain to walk back up to get them, it beats yanking your shoulder out of joint...

agreed. but I have helped people out of tree wheels right off the open trails. In those situations, having a pole to hand can be a help if no one is around.

**mtaylor** · 11-27-2006, 07:28 PM

didnt really like that part...

**brice618** · 11-27-2006, 07:41 PM

i was wondering about that too, seriously they expect people to do that?

**rippah** · 11-29-2006, 04:51 PM

Bump.

r.

**truth** · 11-29-2006, 05:06 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Avalung is priceless in a tree well. I've used it in exactly that way.

**bio-smear** · 11-29-2006, 05:17 PM

I use this dorky wannabe-patroller speaker mic for my walkie talkies, so it's really easy to reach on my pack strap, with the radio itself in the top pocket of the pack.

This kind of thing makes you want to wear your avalung though for heavy day tree skiing.

**telepariah** · 11-29-2006, 05:19 PM

Agreed avalung is a lifesaver in a treewell. But if you don't have one (I don't) getting rightside up is the only way to have a chance of getting yourself out. Having beein upside down in treewells two times, I can tell you that my partners were right next to me--not ten feet away--and in both cases, they never saw me go under. I had to get myself out. I calmed myslef, got out of my bindings and climbed the tree.

BlurredElevens, commonlaw, and SheRa have it exactly right in my opinion. No pole straps -- ever. And if upside down in a treewell, get out of your skis and get your feet under you. Hanging upside down and waiting for someone to pull you out is no plan for survival.