Mt Vista Attempt 2 (tr pics)

[ak_powder_monkey]

reference this thread http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...=dodged+bullet

The trip started out great it was sunny warm and there was a frozen crust on everything south facing and powder on anything north facing at this point I'm thinking wow the stability could actually be good and we could actually ski this thing.

After hiking to Mile High Saddle we started skinning up the Meadow Creek Valley

The Valley opens up a ton of options

skins are awesome


Finally we got to the base of our goal after 3 miles of slogging
2000 feet down (with car to 1500 feet) 3000' to go

I'm an angel

[ak_powder_monkey]

As we neared the top excitement grew things seemed to be stable, there were more safe zones then expected, and it wasn't as steep as it looked from the bottom, plus it was perfect ultra light powder. About 500' from the top Nicholai went "OH SHIT" I looked up thinking I'd see a standard western chugach slab 2 inches deep and not wide and just the surface layer. Instead I saw a crack splitting out a few hundred yards and felt the pressure of the snow against me so I swam. Through my head went things I've heard about avalanches SWIM I told myself then I saw the bed surface without thinking I shoved my poles into it then looked up to see how nicholai was fairing. I though for a second he was high enough to get off the slab but he fell. He was head up and on his belly I just started yelling ARREST ARREST ARREST STAY ON TOP FIGHT FIGHT ARREST as he slid past me and down the couloir towards the roll over (where I was most worried from an avy perspective) I saw him clawing at the bed surface getting nowhere, then all I saw was light and the skis on his back. Finally he seemed to start slowing down I kept yelling to arres and he finally did about 10 feet before he'd go out of sight. During the ordeal I was formulating rescue plans I had just practiced myt beacon finding, I was ready to go find him should he dissappear. Nicholai later remarked he looked down at beacon and made sure it was on. Once he stopped I watched the rest of the avalanche roar down, it was just insanely loud, the powder cloud went at least 500' up the 3000 foot face. I yelled to nicholai to see how he was he gave me the thumbs up took off his pack and sat on it and burried his head in his hands and waited for me to come down.

my position zoomed in a bit, I think the little slab is the intial failure where Nicholai broke it you can see the ice layer in the top slab, which was the layer I was most worried about

Where Nichoali ended up

tracks and debris

from Nicholais Perspective

I'd say thinness of the snowpack contributed to this avalanche
happy to be alive, note the debris pile

from there we decided to get the hell off the mountain walking down with our skis on our back (the bed surface was way to rocky to ski) we ended up taking about 10 turns on perfect corn on some sout facing stuff (I kinda wanted to ski a big south facing couloir but didn't in respect for nicholai who wanted to walk)

We slogged out and ate some homemade pizza my mom made

[crashnburn'd]

I'm not the most avy savy person, but reading this makes me think you need to reevaluate what you should and shouldn't be trying to ski and get some more knowledge and experience. You're 0 for 2... No need to keep on pushing it.

[bad_roo]

The mountain is trying to tell you something.

I don't think it digs the headband.

[teledave]

Be a little more selective and careful out there P.
Seriously.
And get with some people that know about avys and such and learn from them, instead of making all the mistakes yourself. You may not have any more chances left.

[soul_skier]

shallow snowpack, that ice layer you speak of were factors, but the rocks visible in the crown weakened the snowpack in that area. If you couldn't see them, then is part bad luck, part skiing the wrong aspect, nobodys right 100% of the time, mabye tone it down and take more time observing/analyzing snowpack

[Trackhead]

I'm an angel

AKPM, you're not an angel. You're fucking lucky, and you haven't learned SHIT!

Sorry to be harsh. But it's time for you to take a step back, and re-evaluate your skills.

I would suggest you stay out of the backcountry unless you are travelling with someone with 10+ years experience. And not someone with 10 years of luck, but 10 years of being smart.

You WILL die soon if you continue on this path of ignorance.

I think most people your age have gone through a learning curve, but yours is too steep. And you can't stay ahead of the curve for very long, at the rate you are travelling.

[KANUTTEN]

Not the time to flame, I think. Thank god you made it out alive!!

Could you please give more info about the factors contributing to (lack of) snow stability;
- Snowfall history
- Angle where you hiked
- Aspect of slope + recent windhistory
- temperature history

It would be good, both for you and for the rest of the readers, if you could give an account of what contributed to the snow being unstable. The snow that came off; was it wind transported, and if yes; from what direction? What about the layer it was sliding on; was it ice/crust?

As this season is a very good proof of; even very avy savvy people can get caught. It goes to show that more avy knowledge is sorely needed. Good if you could contribute...

And again; I'm glad you and your buddy made it out alive!!

[Trackhead]

Not the time to flame, I think.

Perhaps not. But at some point, his awareness needs to prodded. Twice in two weeks.

Some children need discipline, and sometimes a slap on the ass is the only way to get the message across.

[gincognito]

Perhaps not. But at some point, his awareness needs to prodded. Twice in two weeks.

Some children need discipline, and sometimes a slap on the ass is the only way to get the message across.

Seriously.

Take care of yourself, akpm. Though a lot of people here give you shit, no one wants to see you dead.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and personal re-evaluation is definitely in order),
d.

[H-man]

(I kinda wanted to ski a big south facing couloir but didn't in respect for nicholai who wanted to walk)

We slogged out and ate some homemade pizza my mom made

Does anyone else think that this might be the scariest part of this entire post?

Patrick, Trackhead (and others) are spot on. I appreciate your zeal for skiing & the BC, but I am worried for you. Seriously worried. You really need to step back and change your BC strategy or time frame. The above comments by you, IMO, reeks of a "Too Cool for School" attitude.

Really not trying to be a dick here, but do your parents know about this incident and some others? What do/would they think about this? Do they know/understand the danger that you are putting yourself in?

Make good, well informed decisions. If you can't honestly do that for whatever reason (ability, lack of knowledge, bravado) don't go, turn back, walk away.

You have taken quite a bit of crap here at TGR and still stick around. I give you props for that, but I wonder how much you are learning, or more importantly, absorbing from the wealth of knowledge that this place contains.

I would be considerably more impressed if the end of this post had spoken more about lessons you learned and about discussions you and Nicholai had together and with other informed/educated people about the incident.

Wanting to immediately go ski a big south facing couloir and going to eat homemade pizza from your mom make me think that you will be nothing but an unfortunate statistic in the future.

Sorry kid if I'm harsh.

[Trackhead]

Please be careful. Your track record is disturbing.

If nothing else, do it for your friends and family, if not for yourself.

[KANUTTEN]

...I would be considerably more impressed if the end of this post had spoken more about lessons you learned and about discussions you and Nicholia had together and with other informed/educated people about the incident...

I was trying to encourage this process. In my view it is what you can really learn from. So come on AKPM and give us your analysis of the snow, or possibly also your lack of analysis. Where did you go wrong, you think?

[bklyn]

^^ HE DOESN'T KNOW
and that's the big problem.
AKPM, if you were within 100 miles of me I'd be on my way to bop you on the head. "God is trying to tell you something." You need to go out with more experienced partners.

[shirk]

Wow if you don't change and learn you will not make it to the end of your college carreer.

Like Trackhead said you need to find some partners with TONS of safe and smart backcountry experience to learn from. Find a mentor, and LEARN from them.

[Blurred]

What I really want to know is this.


What kind of pizza was it?

[Camel Toad]

me thinks these are the photos from the slide TR he posted before, not a new disaster.

one other thing Patrick, sunny south faces in the (late) afternoon in spring do not generally come to mind as the best idea when one is seeking stability.

Stay Safe...

[pde20]

We slogged out and ate some homemade pizza my mom made

OMG! That is exactly what I do after every slide I get caught in!

Seriously akpm, there are certainly no shortage of resources and potential partners in your neck of the woods, stop being such a freaking gomer, take some classes, and find some community of older wiser folks who will take you out and impart some actual knowledge in your head. Good luck.

[smmokan]

Now I don't know shit about avalanche safety, but I've put together a few things on my own from reading enough here. It seems like you know the basics- like what everything is- but you don't know how to apply anything in real situations. Its kind of like that Dubya skit on SNL where he keeps saying all the Iraqi names just to impress people- it sounds like that's what you're doing with avy terminology. You need to learn how to apply these concepts you've "learned" and get out there with someone who knows what the fuck they're doing.

[manderson]

Sorry, I'm confused. Are these the pictures from when you got caught in the slide in the dodged a bullet thread? It sounds like your claiming the exact same thing happend again. The wierd thing is that in the dodged a bullet thread you said that your buddy lost one pole. In this thread theres a picture of your buddy hiking back up with only one pole. Whats the odds of your buddy getting caught in a slide twice in the same spot and loosing one pole each time while you get spit out above him?

[Beaver]

I guess the "lots of safe zones" were not a safe as you imagined. Good to hear no one died. Did you learn anything?

[Blurred]

Did you learn anything?

He learned that his Mom makes a hell of a good pie.

[marshalolson]

creampie?

[pechelman]

shallow snowpack, that ice layer you speak of were factors, but the rocks visible in the crown weakened the snowpack in that area. If you couldn't see them, then is part bad luck, part skiing the wrong aspect, nobodys right 100% of the time, but you've been in 2 avys this season, mabye tone it down and take more time observing/analyzing snowpack

Regarding the rocks, it doesnt look like he could have seen the ones where the fracture propogated since they looked to be snow covered, but there are ones just above and to lookers left of where the fracture DID happen that would have been an obvious place for it to have happend.

Not that I have any avy experience, but it definitely seems like you need to slow down. I remember someone said when first going into the BC, give it a solid 3 years before hitting anything "gnar\fun".

If you or anyone fly fishes, the first thing you do when make it to the stream is to relax for a minute, looks at the surroundings, notice the water clarity\temperature, notice the water height and velocity, notice what may or may not be hatching, notice what larva are clinging to the underside of rocks...the list continues, and I know just from my reading on this board and in the avy books Ive read there are many similar things to do when traveling in the BC and even before you get there.

Slow down dude, the BC's not goin anywhere, especially in Alaska.
Glad to hear you're ok, but please stay safe.
I dont think you've been "lucky", I think its been a message to you, please listen.

youve lived through 2 avy's...its time to turn these experience into lessons learned. start a journal of what when where how etc with your knowledge now, get some more education and see if thats what it really was etc.

[Conundrum]

I thought there were two incidents. One is still bad but learn from it and move on. And yes, your headband projects your steeze.

Edit: I thought he was caught in two slides.