the answer to: "what boots?"

[mntlion]

well this is the season where people, new and old, buy need boots or just start useing them again and most forums seem to have a few daily with... "did I buy the right boots" and " what boot should I buy"

this might help


So you want to buy some new boots? This information applies to All double boots (boots with removable liners): downhill, telemark, alpine touring, snowboard, ice climbing, and any ability or age.

First of all the sizing information on the tags is not always accurate. Different brands fit differently and sometimes the sizing tags on the boot are gone. If it is right type of boot, in the right price range, and about the right size, try it on. The first step is to shell fit. With the liner removed, your foot in the shell only, and your toes touching the front of the boot, you should have NO MORE then 2 fingers, 2 cm or ¾ inch between your heel and the back of the boot. You also want about 1-3mm around the width of your foot. Yes they will feel a bit snug at first, but they will pack out, trust us.

Put the liner back in and lace or buckle the boot up and make sure that your heel is back all the way in the boot. Then when you flex the boot forward, your heel should stay down, your toes should come back from the front of the boot, and they should feel comfortably snug. Keep in mind that they will stretch out ¼ to ½ size as your foot works it way back in in the boot, and the liner packs out and molds to your foot.

If you go bigger then this your foot will slide around, and cause blisters, you will have to over tighten your boot to make the foot stay in place, cutting off the blood flow and making your feet colder. Boot fitters can make a small boot bigger, but can not make a big boot smaller.

[Core Shot]

Lemme add my recent discovery that using my footbed substantially shortens my foot. By lifting and supporting my arch, my toes are drawn back by easily a half size.

After initially trying a smaller shell (too painful) I then tried the same tight boot with my footbed and it was perfectly snug (could feel the front, but knew I will pack out the liner for perfect fit).

[corn dog]

I suppose that narrows it down a little bit.

[fez]

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Lemme add my recent discovery that using my footbed substantially shortens my foot. By lifting and supporting my arch, my toes are drawn back by easily a half size.

After initially trying a smaller shell (too painful) I then tried the same tight boot with my footbed and it was perfectly snug (could feel the front, but knew I will pack out the liner for perfect fit).

That's interesting. My boots fit much tighter with my footbeds because they are quite a bit thicker than the stock liners.

[mntlion]

foot beds suport the foot to make it shorter/reduce lenght

a thicker foot bed will fill up volume up/down

[marshalolson]

if you get cold toes, try 2-3 pair of woll socks. that'll help alot.

[marshalolson]

^^^ BUMP ^^^

[BanditXXX]

Originally Posted by marshalolson

if you get cold toes, try 2-3 pair of woll socks. that'll help alot.

2-3 pairs of socks, means your boots are too big. One pair of a quality ski sock is plenty. A proper fittiing boot will keep your feet warm.

[marshalolson]

obviously missed the winky

[Canuk]

Originally Posted by BanditXXX

2-3 pairs of socks, means your boots are too big. One pair of a quality ski sock is plenty. A proper fittiing boot will keep your feet warm.

Obviously you can't read. Marshal specifically said woll socks...not those thick and cumbersome wool socks you were probably thinking of...2 or 3 pair of woll socks shouldn't cause any problems at all.

[L7]

I'd say you can never wear too many socks but I don't like winkies so it could be dangerous.

On the footbeds (which you should always use when trying on boots), they will often shorten the foot and sometimes make the foot narrower at the met heads BUT they will also often increase mid foot volume. That length had to go somewhere.

[powdog]

A case in point - get a size smaller than your shoe size when you choose a ski boot. If it's cold outside, get the ski boot tech to let you go outside and walk outside for five minutes (if it's 20 degrees Fahrenheit, possibly 25 degrees). Get the ski tech to give you a spare liner - they are hard to come by, and they cost a lot, a stock liner will last you maybe 20 days at the outside. But foam injection liners cost you over $200-350, but Intuition liners if they are done right are worth the money.

[Ottime]

Originally Posted by powdog

a stock liner will last you maybe 20 days at the outside.

Are you saying a liner completely packs out in 20 days?

[bfree]

Originally Posted by powdog

a stock liner will last you maybe 20 days

I don't know what you means by "last," but i'm sure that many people put a couple hundred days into their stock liners. sure they aren't intuitions, but they aren't horrible after 20 days.

to ott: i'm not sure if you were actually curious, or just seeing what powdog meant, but boots shouldn't take 20 days to pack out completely, maybe 5-10, depending on use.

useful thread though--this question gets asked a lot. i wish i read it a couple years ago. i need a smaller shell.

[uncle crud]

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Lemme add my recent discovery that using my footbed substantially shortens my foot. By lifting and supporting my arch, my toes are drawn back by easily a half size.

After initially trying a smaller shell (too painful) I then tried the same tight boot with my footbed and it was perfectly snug (could feel the front, but knew I will pack out the liner for perfect fit).

Amen!

On a Brannock device, my foot changes 1.5 sizes with a custom footbed. Size 9.5 supported, size 11.0 unsupported. Severe pronators with medium to high arches suffer the worst!

Originally Posted by bfree

I don't know what you means by "last," but i'm sure that many people put a couple hundred days into their stock liners. sure they aren't intuitions, but they aren't horrible after 20 days.

20 days of WHAT?

Surely you don't mean skiing. I've been skiing for a pretty long time (38 years) and I haven't yet seen a stock liner that could last more than 25 days of SKIING. Maybe the old Hansons and the original Salomon SX 90/91s could have lasted longer since they were primarily neoprene, but I can't think of anything else.

I can't speak to other uses. You might get over 1000 days of shelf life from them.

[flip]

Originally Posted by uncle crud

I've been skiing for a pretty long time (38 years) and I haven't yet seen a stock liner that could last more than 25 days of SKIING.

That sounds crazy to me. If that's all your getting out of your liners, try a tighter shell fit... 1 finger/cm or so. A liner shouldn't be DONE it's packed out, the boot should finally FIT when the liner is packed out.

The liner is done when you either wear through the materials or it stinks so bad you can't stand it.

[uncle crud]

Originally Posted by flip

That sounds crazy to me. If that's all your getting out of your liners, try a tighter shell fit... 1 finger/cm or so. A liner shouldn't be DONE it's packed out, the boot should finally FIT when the liner is packed out.

The liner is done when you either wear through the materials or it stinks so bad you can't stand it.

Good suggestion, and I agree -- it would be the first thing I'd suggest to someone who said what I did. But I'm already in the smallest possible shell, short of going to a plug and doing extensive grinding. The problem really isn't length. For me, liners pack out in volume, not length. They get too big around the ankle and I start losing precision and feel for the edges.

So it's not a shell size issue. It's a skinny foot and ankle issue. And a cheap stock liner issue. I'm talking from experience with Rossignol, Tecnica, San Marco, Lange, Raichle. Right now I'm using ZipFits in my alpine boots (2005 Rossi B2) after getting about 30 days from the original Rossi liner, then rebuilding it with butterfly pads and additional adhesive backed padding, ground with a dremel for pressure relief. That gave me an additional 20 days. Then the boots were just too sloppy. And my AT boots have been a compromised fit from the start, because the volume in a Garmont is much higher than my Rossi alpine boot, and the Garmont is the last that fits me closest.

Next alpine boot I get will probably be a Dalbello Krypton, since they run narrower than everything else from what reliable friends have told me.

[mntlion]

lange HP fit or WC fit (plug), salomon falcon (not a plug, that is the X2), or fulltilt (raichle) are all narrower then the krypton. The krypton helps to manage the heel better then other boots with the middle buckle, but after skiing most of the above boots I would try the krypton, but look at others too.

get the narrowest shell and then start adding liners and padding.

why not go to a plug boot?

[mntlion]

bump for Jongs asking about what new cool boots they should buy

[MrZach]

Jong question:

What is the difference between a plug and non-plug boot? I've never understood this.

[AsheanMT]

Originally Posted by MrZach

Jong question:

What is the difference between a plug and non-plug boot? I've never understood this.

Plug boots are race boots and require a bootfitter. The plastic on a plug boot is super thick and needs to be ground,punched, and stretched by a pro so that it fits that specific skiers foot perfectly. They are wicked stiff and very tight. Ever notice when watching ski racers that the first thing they do at the bottom is unbuckle their boots? I believe the sole also has some sort of "cap" that is specific to that skier as well as opposed to doing cants under the binding. (I'm not sure if they still do that with plugs or not)

[mntlion]

what was said:

basically a plug (race) boot fits no-one, but can be made to fit almost anyone. Think Lego that can be heated, stretched, ground, etc, more then other boots

[Woolybeastman]

OK here are some questions. I have Hobbit- like feet. Wide, high instep. Last season I bought a pair of Technica Vento 10's simply because I could not afford/fit anything stiffer. I had the shop punch out both sides of the foot by my toes (6th toe and big toe) but the punches shrank over the course of the season. First, is this normal? Since these are not race plug boots, is any grinding possible? They were blown out considerably I need a lot of room. So, would it be possible to grind/punch/squish/ask nicely a race plug boot to fit me when even a 102 mm wide toe box (or whatever the Vento 10's is)is not enough? Thanks for any help.

[mntlion]

Originally Posted by Woolybeastman

I had the shop punch out both sides of the foot by my toes (6th toe and big toe) but the punches shrank over the course of the season. First, is this normal?

ya punches will shrink a bit over time/use/heat. I find that most last 50+ days.

Originally Posted by Woolybeastman

Since these are not race plug boots, is any grinding possible?

yes, the plastic is thinner, so you have less to work, plus all the multi injection stuff is goofy

Originally Posted by Woolybeastman

They were blown out considerably I need a lot of room. So, would it be possible to grind/punch/squish/ask nicely a race plug boot to fit me when even a 102 mm wide toe box (or whatever the Vento 10's is)is not enough? Thanks for any help.

Doable, but do you need the instep room in width only? or height too? (feet like pancakes or bricks?) the height is much harder to get extra room in.

Best to find a local boot fitter and ask them to take a look. Bring in the boots that you have, footbeds, thin socks, ski socks, visa, and 60 minutes to start with.


OK some questions for you...

IS the width in the vento's doable with the buckles open? or are they too narrow still with the buckles OPEN? (not loose, or lightly buckled, but OFF)

what is the shell fit like in length? in width?

[Woolybeastman]

Thanks, mntlion. To answer your questions. Feet are like bricks. Width ok with buckles off. Shell fit length is good. 8.5 shoe normally, 25.5 shell. 2 fingers, maybe a bit less. Width is snug but approx. 1mm on sides. My boots are in my lodge at Alta, and I am here in The Adirondacks in NY so I'm going from memory. Just trying to get a good game plan for when I get back there for the season. Gotta ski every day in relative comfort.