your advice for climbing wall in garage

[::: :::]

as a resident of the PNWet with no yard and a low ceiling'ed basement, i was looking at the blank gable end wall of my garage and thought, "what a great spot for an indoor climbing wall for the boy!" perfect for a (now) 6yo kid with spider monkey energy and no wet weather outlets for play at the house

(i'm thinking ahead to next winter, and, quite frankly, summer sometimes doesn't start til july here)

so i found resources for the how-to in various spots on the interwebz, but i'd like some planning advice with regards to appropriate geometry as i'm not a climber myself. so far i know i don't need significant overhangs. if he sticks to it, that can be mod-ed later.

wall is 18' wide x 10' tall

i think (4) 4x10 panels of ply could be a simple strategy. Maybe three are vertical and the fourth tilted at a 10deg angle out for a challenge

also, any advice on where do you find the best deals on holds & crash pads?

i found this for holds: morganic starter kit at +/-$160


thanks up front!

[jongtastic]

www.cheapholds.com

get a crashmat for your kiddo

[concretejungle]

Old mattresses or gymnastics mats work for crash pads. See if there are any gymnastics training places in your area and see if the have old mats they're getting rid of. You can make your own holds with cut down and sanded 2x4's or go out and find some large rocks and drill them for t-nuts.

For a kid a vertical wall is fine and you can make it steeper later if you want. They are pretty easy and your plan is fine for a beginner wall.

[hutash]

Mattresses and shop the intertubes for cheap holds. If you are really looking for cheap, epoxy rocks to the plywood ", which is enough for a six year old and it teaches real world falls when holds break loose, just like climbing in Europe.

[jm2e]

Skip vertical. Go at least 5 deg past vert and up to 25 deg overhanging. If you start with jugs he'll be able to hold on.
If you want it to be pretty, so you can keep using the garage for other stuff, just suck it up and by a few of the biggest thickest crash pads available. If you will dedicate the area to the climbing wall, then go with a stack of mattresses and cover it all with a big carpet scrap to firm it up, make it easier to clean, and avoid ankle breaking gaps in the padding.
Good luck and post pics.

[RTR]

My advice: Don't skimp on t-nuts or quality of plywood. Don't do it. I like the metolius t-nuts, myself.

[::: :::]

this will still need to function as a garage so padding will need to be mobile. crash pads look pretty pricey. i'll see if i can come up with some mattresses that aren't too funky. why the carpet suggestion? is that a padding thing?

i'll be getting prices for my parts list tomorrow. hopefully the ACX ply isn't too spendy, but then again, maybe it'll be just enough to get free delivery (the wagon ain't gonna fit 4x8's)

thx for the responses, all!

[hafilax]

This is a good article if you haven't found it already.
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/pdf/...ll.pdf

I would try to make panels that can be somewhat modular so that you can change the angles if you want.

Make sure you buy quite a few juggy holds. They don't have to be large in size but really easy to hold on to.

[Edgnar]

why the carpet suggestion? is that a padding thing?

Gaps in padding can mean broken/sprained ankles. carpet evens it out.

[::: :::]

cool, thanks!

[::: :::]

i need something like 500 t nuts (@ 72 per 4x8 panel)

metolius branded T-nuts = $.25 ea
$125 for 500
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/hardware.html

other brand $.096 ea
$48 for 500
http://www.amazon.com/500-T-nuts-for.../dp/B003KIQK62

[edit]
and looking back at jongtastic's helpful link (& currently offering spring sale discount)
$.08 ea
$40 for 500
http://www.cheapholds.com/mm5/mercha...egory_Code=HTN
[/edit]

let me know if this is not a worthy "value engineering" option

[::: :::]

ACx ply coming in at $32 per 4x8 panel

7 panels is under $250 --> i've read rule of thumb says double this cost for full budget (w/out holds)

the estimate rule of thumb seems pretty accurate from two quotes received so far

[ak_powder_monkey]

I'd reccomend start climbing yourself... its really fun

[DAFTC]

Kudos to you. Good friend had this in his basement and it was key to starting a life-long affection for the mountains and strengthening bonds w/his brothers. Funny how some plastic holds, mangy mattresses and plywood can inspire a kid.

In my experience, even a two 4x8 panel wall is enough for adults to get worked on if you think in terms of exclusion problems and cycles (and build it steep). Not that it matters for a 6 y.o., but it has the potential to be a long-term investment and/or you can probably recoup a lot of your costs in a few years if it turns out not to get much use, so maybe something to think about in budgeting. Not having spinners (t-nuts that have been overtorqued/stripped and won't keep a hold in place) is arguably worth the cost.

I'd put money into good ply and t-nuts and a smallish selection of jugs to start. If it's getting lots of love, buy more holds, and if it's not you can sell the panels w/out ever having incurred the cost of lots of holds (usually the most expensive part unless you have a line on something). Also, if you can find a spray texture you like (i.e. one that's not total poison), it's nice to have the whole surface as an option for smears.

[Vandeezy]

Lots of great ideas and pictures in this thread here: http://mountainproject.com/v/general...e/106606591__1

Try not to have too much vertical. Since he is little build it so that they can traverse more then climb-up vertical. Thus you may want to add some wood volumes to the wall to spice it up.

The cheap amazon t-nuts work great so don't spend the extra $$ on the metolius ones just make sure you pound them in straight and solid.

You can usually find used holds on craigslist and just get anything that are small jugs. Also this hold manufacturer sells a bunch of kids specific holds which might be good to add to any sets you get: http://www.atomikclimbingholds.com/c...ing-holds.aspx

You have plenty of space for a great wall and if set-up right your kid will love it.

[::: :::]

great link to other walls
thanks!

[::: :::]

I'd reccomend start climbing yourself... its really fun

that might be good for me
i have more of a cycling t-rex build LOL

[jm2e]

I agree with the cheaper tee nuts. You can also check fastener supply companies.
If you have tons of time on your hands and you're anal, here's the perfect way to put tee nuts in: Buy an extra Allen Key and cut off the 'L' so that you can stick the straight stock into a drill/driver. Instead of pounding the tee nuts in, just tap them until the prongs are touching. Then get a jug and go to the front side. At each hole/teenut, thread your hex bolt in through the jug and spin it down with your drill. It'll pull the tee nut straight as an arrow into the hole and sink it perfectly. For the life of the wall you'll have an easier time puting up holds and you'll strip fewer tee nuts.

[jm2e]

As far as crash pads go, yeah they're pricy. I just can't think of anything else that will be easy enough to move back and forth to make the garage useable.
The carpet is good when you have a big heap of permanent mattresses. It eliminates the cracks between mattresses, and it makes chalk and beer spills way easier to clean up. Basically gives the cave a finished look.

[brice618]

make sure its relatively easy to obtain access to the backside of the wall. nothing sucks worse than stripped t-nuts and cramped spaces.

[::: :::]

Hmmm...current plan has no space behind the wall-it's vertical. I'm expecting to reconfigure it eventually to provide more overhang in a few years. Unmount the panels and reframe them at a new angle.

Ques: do you put blue loctite on the bolts?

[brice618]

If you want to mount it to the wall, you could use 1inch webbing (or loops crimped in steel cable) into anchors in the top plate of the wall and then into the framed climbing wall. Without doing any math, 4 across an 8ft width of plywood that's 8ft wide would probably be good. Could make it 8 ft tall and then be able to adjust the angle really easily. Ie - lengthen the webbing to make it steeper, shorten it to make it more vertical. My guess, after watching a bunch of rugrats take to climbing like Jer's exgirlfriend took to being eaten by polar bears, is that very soon after he starts he'll make a totally vertical wall too easy.

This saves you from re-framing, and you could feasibly pull it up out of the way pretty easily. Another way to anchor it could involve a boat winch for a trailer, a pulley, and properly rigged wall anchors, that would save you the need for the webbing and would be even easier to raise and lower.

Edit: No loctite, you'd never get them out. The bolts themselves don't break, they tear through the plywood. I doubt loctite would prevent that. Make sure you don't over tighten the holds for that reason as well.

[::: :::]

My guess, after watching a bunch of rugrats take to climbing like Jer's exgirlfriend took to being eaten by polar bears, is that very soon after he starts he'll make a totally vertical wall too easy.

this is my biggest unknown...i'm hopeful he takes to it, but i don't want it to be a beat-down for him so that he doesn't like doing it

right now, I've got a kid who, given the choices at the climbing gym, will pick the sloped back surface in the kids area. so, vertical is his next step up.

i'm a little leary of a movable wall at this point just from a safety standpoint. maybe 8 linear wall feet [does that make sense?] of vertical and 8 linear wall feet of 10 deg overhang. and i could make projections to add to the vert wall pretty easily for added interest

[::: :::]

[jm2e]

I think the design you have there is just fine. Whatever you have will be awesome and if you're lucky he'll be so into it you'll need to change things up down the road to make it harder. I know a lot of people who have built hinges or some sort of flexibility into their walls. I don't know anyone who has ever changed a thing. It just doesn't happen, so don't waste your time with it. Build the damn wall. You don't need access to the back, but you do need to be liberal with nut distribution. If you lose a few nuts out of a couple hundred, so be it. Slap a screw in hold over it and it's fixed.
Tee-nuts get stripped because they get put in poorly. If you can sink them in dead straight, they shouldn't give you any trouble because you won't cross thread the bolts.