Review: Whitedot Redeemer 190

[LittleWoodsie]

I have had these skis now for about a month with six days on the mountain. Here are my initial impressions of them.

Me
Height: 190cm (6'3")
Weight: 100kg (220lbs)
Age: 41
Ability: 12+ years of sking. Strong advanced skier on a good day.
Freeride skis I have owned: Bandit XX, Bandit B3, Black Crows Navis
Freeride skis I have tried: Hendrix Rhino Chargers, the old ones with that wierd ass 16m radius that ski like shit, K2 Obseths, K2 Coombas, Whitedot Preachers and Volkl Gotamas.

Summary
BEST SKI EVER!!!!!
But seriously I have had so much fun on these skis, they have given me an enormous boost in confidence and for a ski aimed mainly at powder days has surprised me with its versatility.

The Ski
The Redeemer is the flagship ski for the new, UK based, company Whitedot. It is a large, full rocker ski designed mainly for big powder days but also intended to have the versatility to get to and from the powder.

Information about the company can be found at http://www.whitedotfreeride.com/, the Redeemer at http://www.whitedotfreeride.com/skis2.php and some discussion on TGR at [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163586"]http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163586[/ame]


Setup
The recommended freeride mounting point for these skis is 10cm behind ski centre. I mounted them 1cm forward of this to maintain some of the playfullness that I experienced on a pair I demoed that where mounted significantly forward without sacrificing too much high speed stability.

The recommended base and edge angles on these skis is 1° and 87°. Mine came out of the factory with a 90° edge angle. It is definitely worth taking this back to 87° as this makes a noticeable difference to edge grip. But this will shave a fraction off the sidewall as the edge is set flush with the sidewall. This is probably as a result of these skis being manufactured by a company that traditionally makes snowboards. Andrew Phyn from Whitedot has told me that the next production run will have a different sidewall profile resolving this issue.

Impressions
I initially bought these skis thinking that they would be a specialist powder ski. Indeed, in the powder these just charge. Carving, smearing, lounging in the back seat, attacking on the tips of the skis these skis feel comfortable. They have the ability to be turned quickly and easily but really encourage you to just point them and go.

Once the snow gets tracked out they continue to build confidence. The rocker tip just keeps them on top of everything and they don't lose stability at speed. The first pair that I tried, as mentioned earlier, where mounted forward and would get squirrely at speed in these conditions. But with my current setup the only speed limit is the strength in my legs to hold on as I skip from one bump to the next.

The ski has also impressed me in areas I did not expect it to. They are forgiving and stable through the bumps. I absolutely love them in the trees. The small contact patch underfoot makes them easy to turn in a hurry if necessary and the inherent stability of the skis makes it easy to just point them through a gap with the confidence that you will be able to handle what is on the other side. They just seem to roll over anything but the worst hidden logs and rocks under the snow (unfortunately encouraging me to hit them without worrying, doing some damage to the bases despite their strength.)

I was worried that a ski as big as this with such a small effective edge would be a nightmare on the piste and terrifying if it got icey. But if you put them on an edge they carve surprisingly well at all speeds even in firm conditions. This translates well into packed, wind blown snow off piste where the edges still give enough grip to give confidence, and the skis are responsive enough to make small jump turns in these conditions if the line is tight. They are completely shithouse if you hit the sort boilerplate ice that plagues some European slopes. But then, I havn't skied a ski over 100mm wide that isn't and the Redeemers are worse than some and better than a lot that I have tried.

Bad points
Generally I have no complaints about the construction quality except for the small niggle about the edges being flush with the sidewalls. Also the top sheet shows up small scratches quite badly against the black background. I have also got a few chips in the topsheet, which seems to be a common problem with small production run freeride skis. The new sidewall profile that they are working on for next season is intended to address the chipping problem.
The other thing I have noticed about these skis is that after the first few days my legs where more tired and there was more strain on my bad knee. I think this is partly due to the fact that it is just such a big ski. But I think a large factor of this is that the Redeemers just encouraged me to ski harder and faster in a lot of conditions. My legs and style seem to have adjusted to this now and it is not causing me as much trouble.

Conclusion
As you can probably tell I absolutely love these skis. Reading back over my review it looks almost as if I work for Whitedot. But, despite having met and spoken to some of the Whitedot guys I have no vested interests in the company. But the skis have definitely surprised me with their versatility and ability to inspire confidence. Powder, trees, tracked out crud, wind crust and anything else I have hit they handle with ease. They don't have to be ridden hard and fast all day. But I find that I can only take it easy for a little while before I regress back to being a 10yr old kid and just want to open them up and point them at things to see what I can land.

[arild]

Sweet to see a review of these. A good friend of mine will really appreciate the input on which Whitedot ski to get.

[ectreeskier11]

i wanted these at the beginning of the season, shit they look sick though.

[RPF]

Thanks for the review. I am hoping to be on a pair of these really soon. So its nice to hear an opinion on them.
I have been skiing on Whitedots other ski, The Preacher, most days since Christmas and love it.

[the_doc]

Cheers for the review James, really glad you like 'em as I'm sure Parlor and Justin will be! Pretty pimp graphics on the 2011's comming up aswell as the Ragnorroks from Freddy S (120mm under foot, 191's, tip rocker, stiff as f*ck!)

[Professor]

Ragnorroks from Freddy S (120mm under foot, 191's, tip rocker, stiff as f*ck!)

Stop with the teasing and tell us more!

[the_doc]

Ha ha, yeah I'm keen aswell! I'll have a word in the shelllike of Andrew and try to get a few pickies but apart from that the ski is still very much in development, I'll mail Fred to get him to have a word and some views if you guys would like??

[Professor]

^^^^ Yes Please!

[the_doc]

Just got a sneeky peek at the 2011 graphics, L to R....

Redeemer, Ragnarok, ONE, Preacher...

nice!

[Moralkaka]

Any word about how stiff the Ragnarok will be?

[the_doc]

Never skied the Ragnarok's yet but know Fred being ex-Dynastar might be looking for something similar to the XXL/Big Dump flex? All I've heard is that they're competition flex stiff!! Personally I prefer a slightly softer, more playful ski so I'd love to see a Ragnarok "soft edition" or something, finger's crossed!!

[Tele_Mark]

Have been skiing the Ragnarok (mounted with NTN telemark) for a couple of months now.

This ski charges down the track with very little effort, super stiff tails and gets 'edge to edge' very quickly. However, it needs some tweeking at the top third of the ski - but it will be a great ski and addition to the Reedeemer and Preacher. Watch this space!

[ExoticSkis]

Dims & specs?
Sounds like it might be the charging ski Andrew and the crew have been toying with introducing? The civilians seem to love the Preacher and Redeemer as-is...the hucking and straightlining crowd wants a stronger platform for high-pressure situations...

Anyway...keep us posted.. Thanks.

[Huck_Schmuck]

Have been skiing the Ragnarok (mounted with NTN telemark) for a couple of months now.

This ski charges down the track with very little effort, super stiff tails and gets 'edge to edge' very quickly. However, it needs some tweeking at the top third of the ski - but it will be a great ski and addition to the Reedeemer and Preacher. Watch this space!

SWEET!

5678

[hop]

Ragnarok.... sounds like Fred named his ski after his old roommate.

[dotsbitch]

Thanks for the review Littlewoodsie.

We are tweaking the Redeemer slightly next season. Changing the sidewall profile as you hinting, our riders have asked for a 2.5mm edge (currently 1.8) and a thicker base to 1.2mm (currently .8mm). We're also doing a 180cm after requests from the girls and a playing with a 200cm for the future.

Right, back to shitty nappies.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ can you tell us more about the Ragnarok?

dims? rocker/camber stuff?

[dotsbitch]

It's 194cm 145/120/135 325mm rockered tip rising to 66mm with a semi flat tail rising to 20mm. 5mm pos camber. We're still tweaking the shape of the tip slightly. I'll post up some images of the completed ski when we get there.

[the_doc]

Hey not just the "civilians!!" I love the Preacher's...sweet carving ski that can rip big mountain with the best of them then lay some serious trenches on the piste!

[Professor]

Is there a "drooling" emoticon? The Ragnarok sounds really fun!

[RPF]

I've been on these for a few weeks now. We have been really lucky to have some recent fresh snow I've skied them in various grades of soft snow from light powder to slush and had em on piste.
I'm 85 kg (85x2.2 lbs) 5'11''
I'm at the advanced end of "civillian" skier scale. I spend almost all my time off piste.

The marked mounting points on the ski are ski centre, back country jib (5 cm behind centre) and freeride (9.5 cm behind centre). I mounted them 2cm in front of the freeride line, Andrew from Whitedot reccomended 1-2cm in front as a good all round position.

I have no connections with Whitedot (or any other ski company) but have met and chatted with Andrew and some of the Whitedot skiers.

I'd pretty much agree with everything Littlewoodsie said. All in all I really love the ski these are my impressions of it in a variety of conditions.

With dimensions of 138-142/128/132-128 this ski is like a cross between a reverse side cut and a normal side cut ski. Most of their width is in the mid section where there is a slight normal side-cut (27 M radius) along the 1 metre effective edge of the ski. The narrower tips and tails are fully rockered. This results in a ski that feels a lot shorter than its 190cm and is exceptionally easy to steer but is in no way hooky in powder or soft snow.

Not surprisingly these skis are at their best in powder. But are really really good in all soft snow conditions. In powder it floats like a cork and encourages a nice centred stance you can lean as far forward as you like without sinking the tips. It feels like most of the float is under foot (where most of the width is) and the rocker really makes it want to plane and stay on top of the snow. You don't need to charge to make it plane but it is so stable you will really feel like letting it run.

In wind blown and heavy snow it performs very well. It does not throw up any nasty surprises. Its float and lack of hookyness make it a very forgiving in these conditions. Where with stiff regular cambered skis I often get high sided if I don't adapt well enough these make it easy.
As the temperatures warm in Verbier I have had plenty of opportunity to ski in slush lower down at the end on the day. Again in these conditions the float, easy steering, stability and non-hooky nature of these skis was much appreciated.

There is a run I have been doing a few times this week which has good powder up top but lower down is pretty rough dust on crust. I found the rocker particularly useful here for riding over the burried crap and ruts. Likewise shallow burried moguls were a blast. In these conditions I really found it best to let them run and ride out these bits. Attempts to ski defensively and skid and slip on such conditions on a big fat ski is not rewarded.

I found my self just turning and steering these skis on slopes I often jump turn on with other skis and when in tight spots again found it very easy to just pivot them get into a better position.

Where I liked it best is in the trees (this is probably where I like skiing best anyway). I have been lucky to get a few runs through my favourite trees in good snow late in the season and it really turns on demand. It allowed me to take nice lines, jump off pillows and put in quick turns as dictated by the forest.
It is quite a stiff ski and very stable it will chatter a bit on rough hard pack, but hey, its a very fat rockered ski.
On piste it holds a good edge and will carve turns surprisingly well. I did smile the whole way down the first groomer i skied on them.
I am impressed with the build quality and the bases glide very well which is much appreciated on flat traverses where carrying speed is necessary to reduce polling.

Its a big ski with a big pair of balls but also has a big heart and really is easy to ski. An awesome powder ski, awesome in all kinds of soft snow and more than acceptable on piste when required.
Nice work Whitedot.

[ExoticSkis]

Another set of Redeemer reviews/opinions over at SnowHeads:

http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/v...ic.php?t=63262

[Meathelmet]

Bumppah!

Have other peeps skied with the said sticks?

Starting to narrow down candidates for my next pow skis to replace amplid cholesterone rcs..
Stiffish,190cmish,125mmish,30mradiusish, rocker,no reversereverse skis.

Redeemer,Megawatt,hmm,hmm...

[skime]

Hey Meathelmet I have been on these babies for one year now and are still stocked on them. I was planning on giving a reviwe, but haven't got around to it got around to it yet. I was looking at the Cholesterones when I was looking for something to replace Kuros and JJ's as a pow and treeskiing skis.

Current quiver: Xxl's 194, Whitedot Ragnarok XII, Rossi S7, Legend Prorider 186 (-05 version i got cheap) and Whitedot Redeemer 180.

Personaly I think how and where you ski is a big factor in choosing skis, and for me this means amongst others skiareas with a lot of dense forrrest and sometimes steep and not open terrain. Not much bowls and glaciers. So this means I need a fullrockerd skis beacuase a lot of the time the skiing is slow and technical with fun elements thrown inn to the mix.
The Redeemer does this realy well. It slarvs, pivots and responds quickley (as a 128 mm ski can mind you). I had both the 180cm and 190cm version, but had to let one pair go due to major quiveroverlap. One my typical issues he he... Then someone opted for the 190 I had. WD recommends the 180 for girls, but this is not an buttering typ of ski. Even at 180 these sticks are more stabel and tackels bad snow realy well. Much better than the 185 Kuros wich folds when meeting a rough obstacle. This translates to good support when hucking (In dont go big, but the Kuros had me on my back on hard landings from 1,5 meters so deff much bettter than that).
The goodthing about the skis is that they also carvs desently on the groomers and you feel cool and not shacken when entering the lifts again (at lest for me). Even on very hard to almost ice it is possible to get grip.

One thin though is that you might want to detune or do something with the frontrocker edges beacuse they may engage a bit too quick sometimes. That is just my thougths on it.

Conclusion:
In my view they outperform the JJ's in the trees. Camber just dont work if the treeskiing is tigth. They outperfome the Kuro in stability pluss verstility. If you are not big and are usng this on small hills or place with not a lot of space go 180. If your place is big and wideopen dont be afraif to go 190 either. It it deffinetley one of the best pow and treeskiing skiis around which at the same time can mange hucks and big mountain terrain. And one more thing they look like a ski for grown ups (and that is nice) not skater teenagers if you know what I mean.

[Meathelmet]

Hey Meathelmet I have been on these babies for one year now and are still stocked on them.

Mmmmman! Thx for the info!
I Just found a pair of 190cm for a very goodish price... Care to compare the 180-to-190? I feel about the cholesterones that they are just too small,at 184cm. the tip and twin tail eat shitload of running length, and they still are about 5cm shorter than my LP105s at 184cm...
So, I definately would be tempted for the longer 190cm version. Ski in the alps/scandiland mainly with mandatory bushwacking... Even If I am smallish by stature (180cm/74kg) I like to think that
I am on the fit:ish side...
Soo : Loooking for a charger that still would slarve & smoove, something like a fat explosiv with a twin and rocker.
The amplids would have been great if they would have been longer & the tip would have planed better in soft snow....