07-08 Black Diamond Verdict Review

**Kevo** · 11-05-2007, 05:31 PM

Stats-

07-08 Black Diamond Verdict 180cm mounted with FR+ on the line

Me= 175lb, 5'11'', stiff boots with flex of 95

I skied these today on the ever growing white ribbon of death at A-Basin.
-Man made groomed that actually softened up a little in the afternoon. A few very small bumps/imperfections in the snow every now and then with a few very small rollers.

Let me start off by saying that before today I was a little skeptical- it is BD's first year making skis on their own and also their first year with an almost all wood core lineup. The Verdicts for this year are notably different than those of last year, with a wood core and a 102mm waist.

Within the first run I was immediately impressed with the skis performance. They are surprisingly playful. Even with the FR+ I was able to get the tails to pop a bit, but they still rail at speed. It seems to me that BD has made a ski that is similar to Gots, but very lightweight and very maneuverable. The mount is kinda far back, but I am confident that this will only make it easier to charge in deep snow and stay out of the back seat. The flex is about a 4 on Marshall's scale and they are a little more stiff underfoot than in the tips and tail (especially when mounted with Fritschis). They are also pretty darn torsionally stiff, making them proficient at railing turns and adding to the stability.

Alright, enough with the objective part of the review.

What can I say? These skis are excellent. By the third run I was honestly contemplating ditching out on my Mantras in order to get a second pair of Verdicts to mount with alpine binders at +2 for a freeride inbounds ski. I have fallen in love with these skis, and I'm willing to say that I had more fun on these skis than I have ever had on any other pair of skis on day one EVER- even with the MM groomed conditions.

I cannot wait to see how they perform in powder/crud. If I was skiing these primarily inbounds I would probably mount at +2 for added versatility (landing switch in particular) and I would have gone with the 190's for added stability at mach-looney speeds with the +2 mount. For backcountry and ski mountaineering though, I think the 180s will do just fine and make it easier to maneuver in tight spots.

**pechelman** · 11-05-2007, 05:37 PM

how much camber to they have base-2-base?
what is their taped overall length?
i seem to remember BD skis running a bit long

Goth = gotama?

I thought they hand flexed a bit more than 4, maybe a 5, but Ill default to someone who has actually skied them. Is there a difference between the handflex and ski stiffness or am I smoking the crack?

finally
it sounds like they have good energy, but how do they ski?
lively or damp.
ie when you hit a chunk of snow do you feel the ski vibrate a bit, or does it just suck it up and feel smooth?

**Rontele** · 11-05-2007, 05:45 PM

Three guarantees in life:

1) death
2) taxes
3) if you post a tech talk thread reviewing a ski, pechelman will be the first to post with a bunch of questions

**Kevo** · 11-05-2007, 05:52 PM

Mean to say Gots...

Base-2-Base Camber is .75inches or just under 2cm.
just measured overall length @181.5cm.

I think that there is a difference between hand flex and ski stiffness as they are certainly not as stiff as Mantras and do not ski as stiff as Mantras.

They are more lively than Mantras in a good way. It seems to be a perfect mix of liveliness and dampness- enough to have fun/play around but still damp enough to get the job done in crud and rail on groomers. I don't expect that they will bust crud quite as well as Mantras though, so for now I will stand by the 4 on the flex scale.

**bennettc14** · 11-05-2007, 06:21 PM

I know BD has beefed up their skis a little for this year. Would those and the Zealots do alright setup for alpine? All the reviews I've read of their new skis say they are pretty stiff.

**Kevo** · 11-05-2007, 06:34 PM

^I think Verdicts would be awesome for alpine. I can only assume the Zealots would be too, but I have yet to hear/see a real review on them or to see them in person. Word on the street is that the Zealots are very stiff. I'd really like to see a Zealot review sometime- seems like they would be an awesome big mountain/charger ski that may be in the ranks of the ANTs/Katana/...or even squads.

**summit** · 11-05-2007, 06:44 PM

i wonder what the weight difference *really* is versus past verdicts

**zion zig zag** · 11-05-2007, 08:14 PM

Are they stiffer or softer than the black/orange verdicts of last year?

**sfotex** · 11-05-2007, 10:08 PM

Found a pair locally for $320 - should I pull the trigger? I need something for my new dynafit/fuck-tele setup.

**hardboiled** · 11-05-2007, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by sfotex

Found a pair locally for $320 - should I pull the trigger?

no, you should definitely send them my way

seriously, if they are this year's (blue) in a 180 and you decide not to pick them up I am super interested. pm me...

**pde20** · 11-06-2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by hardboiled

no, you should definitely send them my way

seriously, if they are this year's (blue) in a 180 and you decide not to pick them up I am super interested. pm me...

I second that. this is like trading in derivatives of derivatives here, but if you have a line on '08 180 verdicts at $320 I'd be all over it.

**GapersGoHome** · 11-06-2007, 02:03 PM

Zealots are stiff! I gave 'em a flex at the PowderWhore07 show at my bar on sunday; these babies could definitely stand up to alpine abuse.

**murph** · 11-10-2007, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kevo

^I think Verdicts would be awesome for alpine. I can only assume the Zealots would be too, but I have yet to hear/see a real review on them or to see them in person. Word on the street is that the Zealots are very stiff. I'd really like to see a Zealot review sometime- seems like they would be an awesome big mountain/charger ski that may be in the ranks of the ANTs/Katana/...or even squads.

I rode the Zealots today, here goes....

Location: Loveland. Mostly sunny. Skied on groomers, got a little icy in the afternoon.

Me: 5'9", 150lbs. I consider myself a good and capable skier. But I'm not a technical genius, so make of this review what you will. Forgive me for butchered terminology.

Setup: 192 BD Zealots. Frichi FR+, mounted boot center. The guy said this was a touring mount. If I buy these, I'll mount them +1, maybe +2.

Picked up the Zealots first thing in the morning. Felt pretty light in hand for a big stick. I'd never skied something so huge, so I took it easy the first run to make sure I didn't get in over my head. Everything felt fine, so I opened it up . For a big ski, it was quite easy to put on edge. Turns were easy to initiate and the ski held an edge beautifully. Quick, tight turns weren't really happening but I think we can agree that was to be expected.
This ski loves to go straight, and will gobble up anything in its path. It was stable at all speeds and if there's an upper limit, I didn't find it. No chatter. Took it over some dinky rollers for air, landed soft each time. Again no chatter.
At the end of the day the runs had gotten a little scraped off and icey, so I took the Zealots out again to see how they handled and make sure I wasn't dreaming. Just as before, they handled beautifully. Of the 8 or so skis I demoed today, the Zealot was easily my favorite. Simply put, these skis slay.
The only real question mark I have at this point is how they handle in powder.

**Kevo** · 11-10-2007, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by murph

I rode the Zealots today, here goes....

Location: Loveland. Mostly sunny. Skied on groomers, got a little icy in the afternoon.

Me: 5'9", 150lbs. I consider myself a good and capable skier. But I'm not a technical genius, so make of this review what you will. Forgive me for butchered terminology.

Setup: 192 BD Zealots. Frichi FR+, mounted boot center. The guy said this was a touring mount. If I buy these, I'll mount them +1, maybe +2.

Picked up the Zealots first thing in the morning. Felt pretty light in hand for a big stick. I'd never skied something so huge, so I took it easy the first run to make sure I didn't get in over my head. Everything felt fine, so I opened it up . For a big ski, it was quite easy to put on edge. Turns were easy to initiate and the ski held an edge beautifully. Quick, tight turns weren't really happening but I think we can agree that was to be expected.
This ski loves to go straight, and will gobble up anything in its path. It was stable at all speeds and if there's an upper limit, I didn't find it. No chatter. Took it over some dinky rollers for air, landed soft each time. Again no chatter.
At the end of the day the runs had gotten a little scraped off and icey, so I took the Zealots out again to see how they handled and make sure I wasn't dreaming. Just as before, they handled beautifully. Of the 8 or so skis I demoed today, the Zealot was easily my favorite. Simply put, these skis slay.
The only real question mark I have at this point is how they handle in powder.

Wow, great to hear. I'd really like to try them at some point. Seems like a great PNW ski, and I'm kinda thinking about moving up there late next year...hmmm....

**ice19380** · 11-15-2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kevo

If I was skiing these primarily inbounds I would probably mount at +2 for added versatility (landing switch in particular) and I would have gone with the 190's for added stability at mach-looney speeds with the +2 mount. For backcountry and ski mountaineering though, I think the 180s will do just fine and make it easier to maneuver in tight spots.

Great review.

You mentioned landing switch -- I know that BD doesn't call them a twin tip -- is the tail turned up enough for riding and landing switch? After reading all the great reviews, I was about to plunk down for a pair, but was really looking for a fat twin?

Thanks!

**Kevo** · 11-15-2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by ice19380

Great review.

You mentioned landing switch -- I know that BD doesn't call them a twin tip -- is the tail turned up enough for riding and landing switch? After reading all the great reviews, I was about to plunk down for a pair, but was really looking for a fat twin?

Thanks!

The tail is comparable to that of the newer Gots. Big enough to ski/land switch and not worry to much about catching it.

**skiandbike** · 11-20-2007, 01:26 PM

Kevo, I just finished putting together the exact same setup...where did you go to get the bindings mounted? I'm still new to Boulder and don't know the bad shops (Christy's, BSD?) from the good. This will be my backcountry and in-bounds pow ski...debating whether to mount boot center or maybe +1. Thoughts?

**Trackhead** · 11-20-2007, 01:49 PM

I just got a few pairs of the 192cm Zealots. Can't wait to try 'em out in some good snow.

**murph** · 11-20-2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I just got a few pairs of the 192cm Zealots. Can't wait to try 'em out in some good snow.

A few pairs? Let me know if you need to unload one of them for cheap.

**zion zig zag** · 11-20-2007, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I just got a few pairs of the 192cm Zealots. Can't wait to try 'em out in some good snow.

Do you think a matrix will drive those suckers?

**jrosendahl** · 11-20-2007, 04:13 PM

With a tornado tongue they could

**Kevo** · 11-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by skiandbike

Kevo, I just finished putting together the exact same setup...where did you go to get the bindings mounted? I'm still new to Boulder and don't know the bad shops (Christy's, BSD?) from the good. This will be my backcountry and in-bounds pow ski...debating whether to mount boot center or maybe +1. Thoughts?

Boulder Sports Recycler is the place to get them mounted. Have Z do it- he definitely knows what he is doing.

As for the mount- I don't think that there will be too much noticable difference between the line and +1 from a performance standpoint. In order to get an actual differecne in the performance, you would probably have to go to at least +2. +2 would give you more of a "freeride" mount- more even swing weight for airs and better performance switch. Switch skiing and AT binders certainly don't mix, so I would say just mount on the line.

At least for me, I am more likely to benefit from the one time a season I could use that extra 1 cm of tip than than to have any sort of benefit at +1.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you want to tour sometime.

**altasnowbirdripper** · 01-03-2008, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

I just got a few pairs of the 192cm Zealots. Can't wait to try 'em out in some good snow.

Hey Trackhead, what boot shell size are ya?? I'd love to take a pair for a spin!

Great review kevo. Sounds like a sweet ski. Definitely on my list to try this year.
BUT - 95 a stiff boot? 130 is stiff. Come on, step it up. Try on a Lange WC 130 or maybe a Nordica Dobermann Aggressor 130. Those are stiff. Tecnica Diablo 130... 130 is stiff. 95 - is more like park stiff. Blue groomer stiff. Good for BC touring though. Just harassing ya!