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  1. #26
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Pechelman - get the fuck out of your little Colorado bubble.

  2. #27
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    I'm not surprised that Quiksilver is selling Rossi. Let's resurrect the thread that announced the acquisition in the first place and see with hindsight what the Maggots had to say about success or failure of the deal.

  3. #28
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    so i lied
    1 last comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Phill View Post
    Well FWIW pechelman (im no pro) i've skied on almost every "big mountain" ski from squads to LPs to XXLs and supermojos as well as most of the PMGear contingent (192s, brockers, 195s, 188s) and I can honestly say the squad blows them all out of the water. It is probably one of the best designed skis i've been on.
    cool. glad you dig them and made an informed choice
    there will always be someone who likes something someone makes
    the squad has its niche for sure, just like all those other skis.
    ive always felt its just a much smaller less versatile niche....its also not fair to call a squad a squad as there are most certainly different flavors
    that was unfair and ignorant of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super G View Post
    I was able to try out a pair of the brand new S7 this year. I believe this ski is the future. It is powder specific like a Pontoon or Spatula, but the thing rips on groomers and everywhere in between. All I know is that my skiing will reach the next level next season because of these skis.
    philliper and super g
    i now see what you mean by the seven sins ski and that you are probably just referring to the S7. forgive me for getting excited about this new ski theyre making, because i seem to remember designing that ski over a year ago and been skiing on it since november '07. cept i seem to remember its called the 186 Bro Rocker. o well.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    the squad has its niche for sure, just like all those other skis.
    all those other skis are in the same niche. The squad just does it better.


    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman
    philliper and super g
    i now see what you mean by the seven sins ski and that you are probably just referring to the S7. forgive me for getting excited about this new ski theyre making, because i seem to remember designing that ski over a year ago and been skiing on it since november '07. cept i seem to remember its called the 186 Bro Rocker. o well.
    The brocker is not the same ski. Its less radical with the sidecut and considerably stiffer.


    The point those two were trying to make is with skis like the S7 and the new phantom DC's for all the crap the skis may get, you certainly can't say they're not pushing the envelope
    Quote Originally Posted by twodogs View Post
    Hey Phill, why don't you post your tax returns, here on TGR, asshole. And your birth certificate.

  5. #30
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    How the heck do you get a job making skis when you hardly know how to ski yourself? I am born and raised in this industry and still don't know everything there is to make skis. You get into making skis after just skiing two years? I guess you can do anything with a computer now...even simulate skiing so you don't even need to be a skier to make skis.

    I am scared now...oh well...it won't stop me from skiing it just my stop me from skiing some skis :-)

  6. #31
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    I think that under new ownership Rossi might try to expand its marketshare by development, a la K2(pontoon,hellbent). A surf and snowboard company selling a ski company I think is a good thing, for the parent company and Rossi.

  7. #32
    bklyn is offline who guards the guardians?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkman1 View Post
    I'm not surprised that Quiksilver is selling Rossi. Let's resurrect the thread that announced the acquisition in the first place and see with hindsight what the Maggots had to say about success or failure of the deal.
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    Dang!
    I'm just a simple girl trying to make my way in the universe...
    I come up hard, baby but now I'm cool I didn't make it, sugar playin' by the rules
    If you know your history, then you would know where you coming from, then you wouldn't have to ask me, who the heck do I think I am.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phill View Post
    The brocker is not the same ski. Its less radical with the sidecut and considerably stiffer.

    you certainly can't say they're not pushing the envelope
    observation, not comment;

    S7 = 145-115-123
    186 = 140 - 112 - 120
    do the math
    the real difference between the skis is the length of the tips and tails and effective edge.

    you will also be so astout as to observe that just because you may have skied or seen a couple pair of 186s, that it does not mean that all of them flex like that. same with 192s or whatever anything they make.

    question;
    and how long did it take them to "push the envelope" aka catch up to the times?
    (i dont need your reply)

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarlybart View Post
    How the heck do you get a job making skis when you hardly know how to ski yourself? I am born and raised in this industry and still don't know everything there is to make skis. You get into making skis after just skiing two years? I guess you can do anything with a computer now...even simulate skiing so you don't even need to be a skier to make skis.

    I am scared now...oh well...it won't stop me from skiing it just my stop me from skiing some skis :-)
    those are a lot of assumptions there big boy
    by that logic, one also needs to be an expert race driver to design a fast racecar.
    go sit down

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Pechelman - get the fuck out of your little Colorado bubble.
    Who are you? Seriously, 2000 posts since November, do you even ski?

  11. #36
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    Actually yes...car designers are drivers themselves most of the time and they have the true drivers sitting right next to them. I am not saying that you are not a smart guy as you have to be to make skis...just scares me a bit that you have no history in the sport yourself yet you are making skis. Take it as you will I just can't believe that a company like Bro would hire you just for your computer skills. Oh and never tell someone to sit down...I have been doing this alot longer than you little man(or fat guy if you really are a computer nerd) so step off. Maybe go ski a few more runs on some of the other guys skis before you start putting them down smart guy.

  12. #37
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    pechelman, you're forgetting about the steeze. its a very versatile ski, and it seems almost everyone who has ridden them has good things to say about them. rossignol even changed the topsheet for this year (one of the few complaints about the ski) in the form of the S6. that ski was a huge step in the right direction for them, and they seemed to have hit the nail on the head, thats why other than the graphic, the ski is unchanged for next year.

    Also, the S7 although similar in direction to the BROcker are not the same ski. the S7 has tip and tail rocker, while only the BROcker's tips are rockered. Also the S7 tries to implement multiple sidecuts by putting reverse sidecut in the tip and then adding regular sidecut underfoot (or so they say). Its a very interesting shape, and is supposed to perform like a reverse/reverse in pow while still being able to carve the groomers. I've never been either the S7 or the Brocker, but on paper and based on reading and talking to people they seem like two completely different skis

    While they may not be the most progressive company out there, Rossi is definitely diversifying their quiver and taking huge steps in the right direction. They have a lot more to offer than most companies do. Squad, S6, and S7. That would make one hell of a quiver. It would be sad to see them go.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
    ...
    And it's an iconic brand.

    Yes, I do care.

    Would you care if Chevy were to die ?
    I wouldn't care if Chevy went under, or Rossi for that matter. neither is exactly at the fore-front of technology in their fields. Sure Rossi made some good skis, and will continue to make some good skis, but they sure aren't leading the field. Same with Chevy. Other then the vet, and maybe their trucks, they suck, and you can buy something similar to any of their products, that are much better. (You can include Chrysler and Ford here too.) The only reason I want the big 3 to hang around is they provide thousands of jobs, and the government bail out they would get would cost us billions. I doubt Rossi is in that category.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    so i lied
    1 last comment



    cool. glad you dig them and made an informed choice
    there will always be someone who likes something someone makes
    the squad has its niche for sure, just like all those other skis.
    ive always felt its just a much smaller less versatile niche....its also not fair to call a squad a squad as there are most certainly different flavors
    that was unfair and ignorant of me.



    philliper and super g
    i now see what you mean by the seven sins ski and that you are probably just referring to the S7. forgive me for getting excited about this new ski theyre making, because i seem to remember designing that ski over a year ago and been skiing on it since november '07. cept i seem to remember its called the 186 Bro Rocker. o well.
    isn't the bro rocker just a 186 ehp with a wider shovel? not exactly groundbreaking. also regarding the squads, they are BY FAR the most popular freeriding ski in whistler. if you come to whistler and you see someone killing it (which won't take too long), there's a 90% chance they're on squads.. their main problem is durability but the next years are supposed to be wood core so hopefully that problem is fixed.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarlybart View Post
    Actually yes...car designers are drivers themselves most of the time and they have the true drivers sitting right next to them.
    having been both a very average racecar drive and very above average racecar design engineer, id like to also think i know what im talking about with that analogy. yes, the cars ive designed have won multiple races and it wasnt driven by me.

    computer skills have a little to do with it, but its the tip of an iceberg and a means to an ends.


    Quote Originally Posted by njfreeskier View Post
    pechelman, you're forgetting about the steeze. its a very versatile ski, and it seems almost everyone who has ridden them has good things to say about them. rossignol even changed the topsheet for this year (one of the few complaints about the ski) in the form of the S6. that ski was a huge step in the right direction for them, and they seemed to have hit the nail on the head, thats why other than the graphic, the ski is unchanged for next year.

    Also, the S7 although similar in direction to the BROcker are not the same ski. the S7 has tip and tail rocker, while only the BROcker's tips are rockered. Also the S7 tries to implement multiple sidecuts by putting reverse sidecut in the tip and then adding regular sidecut underfoot (or so they say). Its a very interesting shape, and is supposed to perform like a reverse/reverse in pow while still being able to carve the groomers. I've never been either the S7 or the Brocker, but on paper and based on reading and talking to people they seem like two completely different skis

    While they may not be the most progressive company out there, Rossi is definitely diversifying their quiver and taking huge steps in the right direction. They have a lot more to offer than most companies do. Squad, S6, and S7. That would make one hell of a quiver. It would be sad to see them go.

    no, im not forgetting about the steeze, thank you.
    how long did it take them to make a real powder ski, this being their first, LAST YEAR? the closest thing they had before this was a scratch bc afaik.


    thanks for lecturing me on what camber profile the bro rocker has, i didnt know that.
    and be careful what you say, because the pair sitting in my garage right now do have some tail rocker.

    sure theyre finally catching on and catching up to the times, but maybe its too little too late? time will tell.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapedrink View Post
    isn't the bro rocker just a 186 ehp with a wider shovel? .
    yes
    no
    not really

    there are elements of 3 or 4 skis in the brockers plus some new design
    the place where i think the 186 stands apart from all these skis are the certain compromises i decided to make. Most of this has to do with tip geometry, rocker height, sidecuts, and effective edge.

    there are only so many things you can do to a ski to make it "original"

    ill also add this is not my full time job
    i do work for a company on a barter basis on an as needed basis.
    im one person and can only do so much, but i try very hard to do my best because i like what i do, i like the industry, and i want the industry as a whole to succeed and improve.

    shapes can only do so much. (though i have a fresh couple ideas up my sleeve...though may not come into fruition)
    the big advancement this industry needs are in materials, something which i dont have a lot of control over at the moment.
    Last edited by pechelman; 06-18-2008 at 12:12 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarlybart View Post
    Actually yes...car designers are drivers themselves most of the time and they have the true drivers sitting right next to them. I am not saying that you are not a smart guy as you have to be to make skis...just scares me a bit that you have no history in the sport yourself yet you are making skis. Take it as you will I just can't believe that a company like Bro would hire you just for your computer skills. Oh and never tell someone to sit down...I have been doing this alot longer than you little man(or fat guy if you really are a computer nerd) so step off. Maybe go ski a few more runs on some of the other guys skis before you start putting them down smart guy.
    so far pechelman is one of the few intelligent people to post in this thread. Hes been designing these skis based in the input he recieves from the testers, not just his own thoughts. Maybe you should understand how that works before insulting someone who seemingly knows what hes doing He hasnt claimed to be an expert skier. And based on the number of people who ski PMGear BRO's, its working out pretty well thus far.

    also, just incase you didnt gather from the above, the company is PMGear, not Bro.
    Live

  18. #43
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    Try skiing next years race stock 9X in a 191 and try not to smile about 'Le coqe sportif'. Forgive me french spelling

  19. #44
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    Yes you are correct....it's PMGear and Not Bro....I stand corrected.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    having been both a very average racecar drive and very above average racecar design engineer, id like to also think i know what im talking about with that analogy. yes, the cars ive designed have won multiple races and it wasnt driven by me.

    computer skills have a little to do with it, but its the tip of an iceberg and a means to an ends.





    no, im not forgetting about the steeze, thank you.
    how long did it take them to make a real powder ski, this being their first, LAST YEAR? the closest thing they had before this was a scratch bc afaik.


    thanks for lecturing me on what camber profile the bro rocker has, i didnt know that.
    and be careful what you say, because the pair sitting in my garage right now do have some tail rocker.

    sure theyre finally catching on and catching up to the times, but maybe its too little too late? time will tell.
    i dunno the axiom is pretty fucking old.



    you love your lp's, well dynastar doesn't have a single rockered ski in their lineup next year and i bet there are a lot more people out there on bandits than legends. rocker isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, its cool, its different, but it also has serious drawbacks just like reverse camber does. its a niche market just like huge stiff freeriding skis like the squads, supermojos and titan pro's cater to a niche market.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post

    no, im not forgetting about the steeze, thank you.
    how long did it take them to make a real powder ski, this being their first, LAST YEAR? the closest thing they had before this was a scratch bc afaik.


    thanks for lecturing me on what camber profile the bro rocker has, i didnt know that.
    and be careful what you say, because the pair sitting in my garage right now do have some tail rocker.

    sure theyre finally catching on and catching up to the times, but maybe its too little too late? time will tell.
    the scratch bc was a poor excuse for a powder ski in its later years, and you're right it took them FOREVER, but when it finally did come out with the steeze, it killed it. and now with the s7 to complement it, i think they've more than caught up, they are where they need to be and just keep on improving from here on out. you're right i guess, only time will tell. i still think it would be sad to see them go.

    tail rocker on the brockers...is that standard? i thought they only made it with tip rocker.

  22. #47
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    aw c'mon, rossi had the axiom back in the day! aah, beaten to it. "Luscious tip profile" iirc After McConkey and the spat hasn't everyone just been tweaking things? Variety is good, refinement into different niches is good too.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapedrink View Post
    i dunno the axiom is pretty fucking old.



    you love your lp's, well dynastar doesn't have a single rockered ski in their lineup next year and i bet there are a lot more people out there on bandits than legends. rocker isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, its cool, its different, but it also has serious drawbacks just like reverse camber does. its a niche market just like huge stiff freeriding skis like the squads, supermojos and titan pro's cater to a niche market.
    axioms slay
    one of my favorite pow skis ever
    why they didnt figure that out that ski is a winner today is beyond me.

    rocker isnt the end all be all, i totally agree. its fun, it has its place, and done correctly, can make a really fun versatile tool to ski. some skis take it too far imo and then they become too playful and more like toys. not the best analogy here, but thats how i feel sorta.

    i love my LPs because i love their ski feel and theyre pretty versatile for where and how i ski. its nice to just have 1 ski after trying 30-40 that you can ski everyday regardless of conditions and ahve a good day.

    of course there are more people on bandits than legends
    notice any price difference? notice the amount of skis they flood the market with? notice the amount of ads you see? maybe they have more money to pay off reviewers, i dont know. why there arent more people on LPs has always been a bit perplexing to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by njfreeskier View Post
    tail rocker on the brockers...is that standard? i thought they only made it with tip rocker.
    its not "standard"
    one of the benefits with a small company like this, is that we\they can do anything.

  24. #49
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    tail rocker... wow... that's original right? nobody has done that before...
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
    Would you care if Chevy were to die ?
    No...........

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