Looking for a Ski--Newb P'ownage

[volklpowdermaniac]

i was considering them for a while, but a few people have mentioned how soft they were...


not that I need something overly stiff, but not overly soft either.


newb question alert.....


on small hucks (15 ft or less) how does stiffness impact landing.....jong on

[bobski]

What "desire ratio" of frontside/powder/park? Are you budget limited to a quiver of one? Would you consider two pairs if you could get demo or used? Are you adding to your current skis or replacing them?

FWIW I like my SFB but they are a minor part of my quiver. Maybe 5-10 days per season. I would not use them all the time. Not sure I will keep them for next season due to overlap but if not I can sell them here. The guy I bought them from tried to use a quiver of one with 1/2 time in the park and it did not work for him... which why I ended up with them.

If I had to pick one ski it would be my Bros but I do not hit the park more than a jump or two once in a while.

[volklpowdermaniac]

It will be one of my two skis in my quiver. I simply can't afford more.

I have a pair of volkl bridges, and I most say I love em, they are nimble, pretty damn good in the park, and better than decent in mildly deep stuff.

Storm: ski my new pows for two days maybe 3, then back to the bridges, maybe more maybe less....

but I am buying this new ski for the deep stuff and the occasional small cliffs I encounter while heading down the runs I like....if the conditions are bad, or I'm planning on working in the park (something which I don't do much of to begin with) I'll whip out the bridges..


hope that helps....

[LightRanger]

VPM,

You mentioned "carving" in the trees. Most of the the time when I ski trees I don't "carve" because I carving is generally reserved for harder snow. When I ski (tight) trees the snow isn't generally hard, it's soft. You want a powder ski, "carving" ability only matters to get back to the lift. And even at that, you're in CO and it's not going to be much of an issue even with full reverse-reverse. Just ask the CO guys on here who own them.

Where reverse sidecut helps in the trees is the ability to pivot your skis underfoot because of that huge platform right underneath and slimmer tips. You don't ski your edges in powder, especially light Colorado powder (according to the vast majority of skiers, although there are a few curmudgeons around who say you do). You *can* catch an edge in heavier fresh, but even then it's tons more forgiving than hardpack. Maybe I misread you, but you seemed for have trouble with the "carving" thing.

I ordered 188 Praxis Hybrids at the presale price, BTW. The fattest ski in my 3-ski quiver.

[volklpowdermaniac]

VPM,

You mentioned "carving" in the trees. Most of the the time when I ski trees I don't "carve" because I carving is generally reserved for harder snow. When I ski (tight) trees the snow isn't generally hard, it's soft. You want a powder ski, "carving" ability only matters to get back to the lift. And even at that, you're in CO and it's not going to be much of an issue even with full reverse-reverse. Just ask the CO guys on here who own them.

Where reverse sidecut helps in the trees is the ability to pivot your skis underfoot because of that huge platform right underneath and slimmer tips. You don't ski your edges in powder, especially light Colorado powder (according to the vast majority of skiers, although there are a few curmudgeons around who say you do). You *can* catch an edge in heavier fresh, but even then it's tons more forgiving than hardpack. Maybe I misread you, but you seemed for have trouble with the "carving" thing.

I ordered 188 Praxis Hybrids at the presale price, BTW. The fattest ski in my 3-ski quiver.

nice talk on the reverse reverse....this forum is great. if only spending this much time on it could get me more money for skis.

[Nathan Explosion]

Again, check out the specs on the Kuro. Stiff, normal sidecut underfoot, carves hardpack as well as anything that wide, and a total fucking blast in trees. Seems to also come in perfect lengths for you, and they're fairly stiff for a what they are.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Again, check out the specs on the Kuro. Stiff, normal sidecut underfoot, carves hardpack as well as anything that wide, and a total fucking blast in trees. Seems to also come in perfect lengths for you, and they're fairly stiff for a what they are.

yeah, but hot damn, theyre expensive.

[bobski]

It will be one of my two skis in my quiver.
Storm: ski my new pows for two days maybe 3, then back to the bridges, maybe more maybe less....
but I am buying this new ski for the deep stuff and the occasional small cliffs I encounter while heading down the runs I like....
...

OK. So, if I can sum up, you are looking for a second pair of skis to use at Vail for lift-accessed runs for 2-3 days after a dump. Even if you nail first chair and do not hike you will get 1/2 day of nice powder max and then chop, crud and trees thereafter,right. Skis must also be able to land small hucks.

A pure powder ski, and as much as I love Praxis, a rev-rev would not be a good fit IMHO. Just not likely not to be versitile enough for you. Also the SFB are too soft.

I gotta go with PM Gear. I would lean toward Fat Bros (114mm underfoot) but the Bros (99mm) might fit the bill. Prob a stiff flex depending on your aggression level and that you will huck a bit. Bomber construction, great customer service, support a mag and sometimes you can find deals in gear swap. They will change the way you ski for the better. Look at www.pmgearusa.com descriptions, think realistically about how you ski and if you still need convincing PM or call Splat (Pat). The only downside is you will need to change your handle to pmgearpowdermaniac though.

[volklpowdermaniac]

OK. So, if I can sum up, you are looking for a second pair of skis to use at Vail for lift-accessed runs for 2-3 days after a dump. Even if you nail first chair and do not hike you will get 1/2 day of nice powder max and then chop, crud and trees thereafter,right. Skis must also be able to land small hucks.

A pure powder ski, and as much as I love Praxis, a rev-rev would not be a good fit IMHO. Just not likely not to be versitile enough for you. Also the SFB are too soft.

I gotta go with PM Gear. I would lean toward Fat Bros (114mm underfoot) but the Bros (99mm) might fit the bill. Prob a stiff flex depending on your aggression level and that you will huck a bit. Bomber construction, great customer service, support a mag and sometimes you can find deals in gear swap. They will change the way you ski for the better. Look at www.pmgearusa.com descriptions, think realistically about how you ski and if you still need convincing PM or call Splat (Pat). The only downside is you will need to change your handle to pmgearpowdermaniac though.

The 99mm under foot I wouldn't buy, although many would disagree, and I'm proabably wrong, I feel just as capable with my bridges at 92mm as I would with a 99mm.

Your right about pow days at vail. Although this past january, we got several days of fresh in a row. Anyways, while I will be spending a lot of days at vail/abasin/bcreek/breck and keystone I will also be trying to expand my horizons, ski some other mountains. Silverton is up on the top of my list, telluride, granted these are all resort type mountains still, I am going to try and expand my terrain. I'd like to begin hiking at some point during the season as well. So its all relative.

I do agree however that the SFBs are too soft and that a reverse reverse is not the right fit....thats why I've moved to narrow my list to skis with at least some underfoot sidecut...i need to be able cruise over to the bowls and blue sky....

thats why the list is down to

moment bibby pro
ehp 186
atomic thug
armada jj

i feel like the bibby pro and thug are more traditional and perhaps, could be mistaken, probably mistaken, but they are perhaps similar to a hellbent like ski

where as the armada and 4frnt take a slighlty different flavor

anyway, all this info is great and its only helping, at this point im just scouring non-stop for deals on one of the above skis. drrr

[mski12]

Bibby pro has similarities to the hellbent; thug does not. Thug is the only traditional shaped pow ski of the group. Next years EHP is also different than this years

[volklpowdermaniac]

Bibby pro has similarities to the hellbent; thug does not. Thug is the only traditional shaped pow ski of the group. Next years EHP is also different than this years

newb alert. feel like venturing to explain the similarities of bibby pro to hellbent and differences of thug....

[mski12]

They are similar in that they both have lots of tip/tail rocker. The Bibby pro replaces the melee which has been compared to the hellbent.

The writeup of the bibby pro from moment says that it has a med/stiff flex so prob wont be as soft as the hellbent. The thug has no rocker. Pretty simple

A search of bibby pro would have answered your questions regarding the similarities to the hellbent
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ighlight=bibby

[moonlightdbag]

moment= donner party=da' shit! for cheap volkl's pm ptex1 or just call Alpine High in Billings, best deals on volkl i've ever seen

[volklpowdermaniac]

moment= donner party=da' shit! for cheap volkl's pm ptex1 or just call Alpine High in Billings, best deals on volkl i've ever seen

I would like to stick with volkl, but want something bigger than the katana, ...im going to look into a sumo and chopstick see what's what, not counting volkl out yet, as I have had three pairs of em and loved the shit out of each one.....but might be time to expand horizons

i searched around tgr, not too many reviews of the chopstick....other than some over at barkingbear who said the symmetrical design might leave people feelin like theyre going to fly over the handle bars, which is no fun for anyone.

[spindrift]

I would like to stick with volkl,.....but might be time to expand horizons

= Kuro...

Also, I did not notice this timeless piece in response to the reverse/reverse question (coulda missed it skimming though):

http://www.fuzeqna.com/evogear/consu...il.asp?kbid=61

It explains much.

Praxis Powders & Kuros are the two funnest things I've spent time on. Obviously some subjectivity there, but I'd just plain cry if I had to head into next season without at least one of those on hand. You should still take a serious look at these & perhaps the others in that general pack.

If you can't get your brain around getting yourself into one of those, look for something Hell Bent-ish. Not as wonderfully surfy/smeary/pivoty, but more all around. And amenable to carving around switch, etc.

The main point is that if you are going to get a quiver ski for powder, do it right & get a seriously dedicated powder ski.

FWIW - My reaction to these skis is based on use, not reviews... in the past 12 months, days on Praxis = 20; days on Kuros = 10; days on Hell Bents = a bit north of 20. I am, however, an admitted gaper.

[volklpowdermaniac]

= Kuro...

Also, I did not notice this timeless piece in response to the reverse/reverse question (coulda missed it skimming though):

http://www.fuzeqna.com/evogear/consu...il.asp?kbid=61

It explains much.

Praxis Powders & Kuros are the two funnest things I've spent time on. Obviously some subjectivity there, but I'd just plain cry if I had to head into next season without at least one of those on hand. You should still take a serious look at these & perhaps the others in that general pack.

If you can't get your brain around getting yourself into one of those, look for something Hell Bent-ish. Not as wonderfully surfy/smeary/pivoty, but more all around. And amenable to carving around switch, etc.

The main point is that if you are going to get a quiver ski for powder, do it right & get a seriously dedicated powder ski.

FWIW - My reaction to these skis is based on use, not reviews... in the past 12 months, days on Praxis = 20; days on Kuros = 10; days on Hell Bents = a bit north of 20. I am, however, an admitted gaper.

Which praxis is everyone so high on, or perhaps more specifically, which are yout alking about....the "powder boards" or the "powder rx"

[spindrift]

Powder Boards - found at http://praxisskis.com/ski/index.php?...mart&Itemid=77

True reverse/reverse.

[volklpowdermaniac]

and then there were three

4frnt ehp 186
Atomic Thug 181 or perhaps 192
Moment Bibby pro


someone who had skiied both the ehp and Armada JJ gave testimony and loved the ehp a lot more...ill trust the opinion of a tgr'er....


slow and steady wins the race.

[Nathan Explosion]

Ok, well I own a 193 EHP, have skied the 192 Thug, and the Kuro. If the Kuro were out, and a little longer, I'd own it. Me being 6'+ is the biggest issue, not the ski.

[volklpowdermaniac]

I really think its down to 2, the EHP is nice, but I care for the design on the thug and the bibby pro more....i love this forum, I have narrowed down from like 10 skis to two!

Atomic Thug 181/192

Moment Bibby Pro 186


how do people feel about bibby pro considering the following:

143-115-134 and a RADIUS OF 22 at 186

what are the thoughts of a powder ski with a radius of 22... concerns?

[PowTron]

You have to stop with the "how expensive" talk, seriously...


You get what you pay for most of the time, and anything from PM Gear, Moment, Movement, etc is going to be more then the "big brands"...that is just how it is, man...



Where are you moving here from? The Midwest? New England? Upstate NY?

I am originally from NH...throw everything out the window you know about skiing except how to carve on hardpack. You will ski 200 times better after one season in CO, especially if it is like the season we had last year.

After reading this whole thread (not sure WHY ) and your other Thug posts, I would say to go with a reverse, reverse for pow days and then something like a Gotama or 179 Bro (medium flex) for your everywhere ski...sell those bridges, because after one month here, they are going to collect dust.

[volklpowdermaniac]

You have to stop with the "how expensive" talk, seriously...


You get what you pay for most of the time, and anything from PM Gear, Moment, Movement, etc is going to be more then the "big brands"...that is just how it is, man...



Where are you moving here from? The Midwest? New England? Upstate NY?

I am originally from NH...throw everything out the window you know about skiing except how to carve on hardpack. You will ski 200 times better after one season in CO, especially if it is like the season we had last year.

After reading this whole thread (not sure WHY ) and your other Thug posts, I would say to go with a reverse, reverse for pow days and then something like a Gotama or 179 Bro (medium flex) for your everywhere ski...sell those bridges, because after one month here, they are going to collect dust.

I realize that they are more expensive, smaller brands, higher costs. but the bibby pro is actually a great buy IMO at 550....plus hopefully theyll have a preseason sale.

I grew up skiing in vermont....mount snow, killington, etc....my parents have a home right over the boarder in the berkshires in mass. That being, said, cost is still a major issue.....I realize you get what you pay for, but with boots coming up, and bindings as well, I simply can't afford to get rid of bridges and buy a goat and a reverse reverse.....its not a matter of anything but the truth, i don't have the money, I simply have to make the bridges work on the cruddy days, (Not to mention I love the bridges great all mountain ski) I have been out west for the last four januaries for a week or so at a time, and GRANTED, I REALIZE FULL WELL, that that is a terribly small sample size, but I have skiied during back to back pow days as well as days of chop and crud.....so I have improved and modified my skiing over the years. I have obviously become a much better skiier after spending time out west, HOWEVER LIMITED that might be, I hope by shopping for deals, I'll find a quality ski at a low price, which is what I need now. its just a fact of life, sometimes your broke. I'd love to go out and buy a set of praxis or bros but, i can't have cake and eat it too. JONG me if you must

[PowTron]

JONG me if you must

I am trying to help you, man...I would have JONG'd you earlier if that was my intention.

I am just saying, you get what you pay for, that is all...and, others have told you this; you would be amazed at the deals that kind of just fall in your lap from getting to know people on TGR, at local shops, etc.

For instance...last season, in the height of our POW season, I got my Katana's for less then 400 bucks still in the plastic. I have Prophet 130's that I got for less then wholesale. I got my boots for cost...

You just have to look, and look, and look...and understand that you can wait until December or so and still have MONTHS of good pow skiing left here in CO.

So, as long as you are over 21 () let me know when you are coming out, and I will buy you a beer...then we can slay some pow or something. Fellow East Coasters need to stick together,

[PowTron]

If you don't like the Bibby Pro, PowTron will take it off your hands for $300.

HAHA


150, plus a backrub from Nick P's mom...


PM sent to you, btw, about some BBQ action.

[pappag]

PM sent to you, btw, about some BBQ action.

Did you remember to hit the "enter" key this time?