Q's about the Berner Oberland (yurp)

[KANUTTEN]

A friend and myself are going touring in the Berner Oberland starting the 24th of march for about a week. We are gonna stay for about 5 days and do a few 4000 meters, and stay at the Konkordiahut, Hollandiahut and possibly some other huts as well. I have some questions that Im sure someone here more knowledgable than me can help with. Here goes;

1.Is the glacier/crevasses well filled in with snow this year, or will we have to be very careful about crevasses in the area? Is it mandatory with rope and harness on the claciers regardless?

2. Is the routefinding in general difficult? Is it a great advantage with a GPS, or will we be allright with a good map and a compass?

3. For many of the summits, can we do without iceaxe, crampons, rope ++, or should we bring basic climbing equipment with us at any time.

Any recommendations about the area is, as always, greatly appreciated.

[Arno]

A few generic answers - not been to the Oberland myself, but reckon these apply to glacier travel/mountaineering generally

1. Definitely take glacier rescue kit. Apart from the rope (which you'll probably want anyway - see below) it doesn't weigh too much, and you can look super-core by wearing the harness with all the prussiks etc attached. That way it doesn't take up room in your pack.

2. If you're proficient with a map and compass, GPS isn't *necessary*. However it does make like a lot easier in white out conditions. From what I hear about the Oberland, there are huge areas of featureless glacier, so I think GPS would be particularly useful in a white-out there. Don't get too reliant on the GPS though - you can get "shadows" if you're near steep faces where they can't pick up sufficient signals.

3. Crampons will probably be the heaviest single bit of kit in your pack but I'd take them along with an ice axe and a rope. Lots of good reasons to - imagine how frustrating it would be not to be able to do the last 50m of a peak because you hadn't bought them. Also you might have to cross steep passes where they come in handy and so on.

Have fun! There's a group from my ski mountaineering club in the area that week. Look out for a slightly beardy group of Brits

[KANUTTEN]

Supposedly this is the opening weekend for many of the huts in the area. Does anyone know if this is correct? If yes I guess it means we cant rely too much on tracks.

[Lostinthetrees]

Originally Posted by Arno

...
3. Crampons will probably be the heaviest single bit of kit in your pack but I'd take them along with an ice axe and a rope...

Second that suggestion. I have very limited experience w/ climbing and glacier travel, but I have never been w/o crampons. When you can no longer use skins it makes boot-packing and ice/rock traversing much easier and secure.

Bring 40m 8mm rescue rope. Practice tying off the triple bowline. Without a harness it gives you 3 secure loops to step into in an emergency.

an ice screw.

[subtle plague]

concerning weather and snow: you've found the ony area in switzerland which has average snow heights right now.




it's not as bad as it might look because in general the absolute numbers are much higher than in other areas.

[Tectonically_Neglected]

Originally Posted by KANUTTEN

A friend and myself are going touring in the Berner Oberland starting the 24th of march for about a week. We are gonna stay for about 5 days and do a few 4000 meters, and stay at the Konkordiahut, Hollandiahut and possibly some other huts as well. I have some questions that Im sure someone here more knowledgable than me can help with. Here goes;

1.Is the glacier/crevasses well filled in with snow this year, or will we have to be very careful about crevasses in the area? Is it mandatory with rope and harness on the claciers regardless?

2. Is the routefinding in general difficult? Is it a great advantage with a GPS, or will we be allright with a good map and a compass?

3. For many of the summits, can we do without iceaxe, crampons, rope ++, or should we bring basic climbing equipment with us at any time.

Any recommendations about the area is, as always, greatly appreciated.

Done some touring around there a few years ago. My 0.02:

1. Depends on the routes you will be doing. We def ran into some crevasses we skiing from the Hollandia to Concordia. Nothing ultra gnarly but then, it doesn't have to be. I'd bring a rope if I were going again.

2. Routefinding is pretty straightforward. However, with bad viz, things can get pretty ugly if crossing the Aletsch glacier. That thing is huge and flat... sucky for orientation. I've heard stories of ppl having a hard time finding the Concordia hutte.

3. We missed out on an easy summit due to lack of crampons. Although I must say, I was touring there in may. I guess, with normal galcier stuff comes a rope, prusik and ice axe anyway. You might as well bring the crampons also (I learned that lesson the hard way, once again a few weeks ago on Breithorn... had to turn around about 50m below the summit )

On the last night, we slept in a hut to the NE of the Concordia... very cool and totally deserted. Surreal experience, waking up to the sound of snow crystals crashing into one another, 40m below you on the glacier... I'll see if I can find the name of the hutte (it was on a mountain pass))

[Tectonically_Neglected]

I think it was Lauteraar or Oberaarjoch. Probably the last one. Skied down into Gletsch and took the train back to our car in the Lötschental...

[KANUTTEN]

Thanks guys.

And bump for possible additions.

[bbirtle]

Drop me a line as I'm in the area and I want to do the Monch, Jungfrau, and Fiescherhorn this season... maybe I could tag along with you guys?

I did a five day thing last year there including Finsteraarhorn and Gross Grunhorn (intended to do the Fiescherhorn, Jungfrau, and Monch but weather turned bad). Then another seperate trip to do the Aletchhorn.

Here's what I brought (and would recommend) - it's basics for this type of trip (ie high mountain, glaciars):
* crampons
* one or two thin 30-45m rope(s) - you decide whether you want to risk if the guy with the rope falls into the hole
* harness
* "crevass rescue kit" = two ice screws, two long slings, one belay/rappel device, two prussiks cords, three locking carabiners
* one non-technical ice axe
* ski crampons (definitely a must)
* skins, skis, etc.
* rock-climbing or ski-type helmet (wouldn't do the peaks without one)
* avalanche rescue kit (beacon, shovel, probe)

Sleeping bag not needed as the body warmth from 150 stinking ski mountaineers all crammed into the same sleeping area will keep you toasty warm.

As for the peaks, they are all of the simul-climbing variety. So rope with your partner with around 10-15m in between you and place slings (you can use the four you have with you) around rock spikes as well a small set of nuts/chocks could be useful. There may be shorter segments you'll want to belay, depending on the conditions and other factors. A couple 2m lengths of cord to set up and strengthen rappel/absail anchors is always nice.

We didn't end up using a lot of the above, but I wouldn't try a peak without that as a minimum, to avoid getting yourself into danger if it turns out to warrent it. The Aletchhorn turned out to have a really nasty bergshrund best to belay across with ice screws as pro (the four you and your partner have for the glaciar travel are enough) and a blank ice wall very scary without doing it belayed.

Fintersteraarhorn we did just simulclimbing, placing pro only in a few of the more exposed spots, mostly not really needing the rope.

Gross Grunhorn we felt the rope wasn't even necessary but it's graded higher than the rest so maybe the thick snow had covered the worst of it.

The huts can get insanely crowded. I think some or most open way back in March but I could be wrong. During our trip there were 150 at least at each hut.

Glaciars are not too bad, but you may want to skin up roped together since this is easy and help would prevent death by hidden holes.

Icy conditions will probably be encountered so do not forget the ski crampons.

Buy just the 1:50000 map and there's no need for compass/gps/etc.

Wise man say "those that follow track end up on top of cliffs". Study and know the map and forever challenge the tracks in place to ensure you stay on route - there are tracks going every which way and it's easy to follow the wrong one. Plus conditions change constantly so the track somebody put in during a warm day turns into a death trap on an icy day... I've just seem hundreds of people blindly following tracks and it's pretty shocking!

Also, the costs of the huts really add up quick. I spent I think more than 300 euros for the five day trip!

[KANUTTEN]

That is great info Bbirtle - pm sent.

What about reservations for the huts, is that needed? If needed; we better get some of those, but plans can change pretty rapidly...

[H-man]

...if you can get your hands on it, there is an article in this months Couloir Magazine about it. You'll get better info off the mags anywho, but it might increase the stoke level

Looks good. Have a great time.