Atomic Centro 412's...pre-release issues?

[Joanie]

Hi.

I'm using a pair of Atomic SX11's which I actually really like, but they've got a pair of Centro 412's that are giving me some serious pre-release issues, even when skiing non-aggressively (relatively speaking).

Has anyone had similar issues with these bindings or might the issues just be with this pair?

Thanks, guys.

Joanie

[CantDog]

You can now officially join the 'atomic bindings suck' club. It has a pretty big membership.


So to answer your question, yes they are known to pre-release.

[Telepath]

Atomic 1018 bindings in it's various incarnations are great (though heavy), all other Atomic bindings prerelease a lot! Problem with the SX11 is the Atomic-specific mounting interface (SX11's are great with 1018's, but rather heavy..). I haven't tried to remove the mbinding plate and ghetto-mount something else on these, but it might be possible (it's a common operation on 04 Big Daddies among others).

[Shredhead]

HATED EM!

[Krash]

Hi.

I'm using a pair of Atomic SX11's which I actually really like, but they've got a pair of Centro 412's that are giving me some serious pre-release issues, even when skiing non-aggressively (relatively speaking).

Has anyone had similar issues with these bindings or might the issues just be with this pair?

Thanks, guys.

Joanie

The heel release spring's tend to break on the 412's specifically. I would try a pair of the non-centro 614's. How old are the bindings? Atomic may warranty if with in 1-2 years.

[Joanie]

No, they're not within warranty, but Atomic should stand behind them if they produced a crappy binding. You wouldn't believe the header I took on these things...Jesus. Due to a pre-release.

I would be able to tell if the heel release spring was broken. I'd think that would be pretty obvious!

Somebody on the mountain told me that he had a pair of Centro 412's and they would release if he hit the slightest mogul. The SLIGHTEST mogul.

His were not on SX11's either.

That's why I'm wondering if these bindings just had issues. I'm just brash enough to know the issue isn't me!

Anyone else have issues with Atomic bindings? Where do I go to join the "Atomics Suck" club?

[cooltsi]

Figured I'd use the 614 on my Big daddies for a few days last year. You know to figure out the mounting point when I ditched the plate. 2nd day, prerelease and over the handlebars on the first run down. Broken hand bone and one finger shutting down the rest of my season. I won't do atomic again.

[L7]

There are two important things to know and abide when using those bindings.

1) is turn the forward pressure screw in one or two millimeters beyond the housing especially for higher DIN settings. The tech manual says flush with the housing but one or two mils (one or two clicks) makes a huge difference.

2) NEVER EVER turn up the forward pressure screw with the boot already in the binding. This is the source of most prerelease problems. It should not be done with any binding but other bindings may tolerate it, these will not. If this has been done there is a good chance the worm screw (or band) has been stripped.

Also check the binding with no boot in it and the heel cup up. The back lever should move freely. If it does not move freely in this position there is a broken internal piece that happened with a limited production and you MIGHT still get somewhere with warranty.

[LeeLau]

I had issues with a Atomic Xentrix 412 binding that pre-released some 3 years ago. Tech checked it and the effective DIN at the visual 9 setting was actually about 5 or so on the rear heelpiece. It was replaced under warranty with a 614.

Per the rep that I know, there was a small batch of binders with known issues.

I also use these binders on a Atomic SX 11.

[Joanie]

Any way of telling if my bindings come from the bad batch?

Lot numbers? Anything of that sort?

Also, what is the difference between the Xentrix and the Centro? Anybody know?

Thanks, friends. I appreciate the information and support.

[LeeLau]

Joanie - here's a picture from this listing http://cgi.ebay.com/atomic-412-xentr...QQcmdZViewItem

I have no idea what the Centro looks like.

If it helps I'll pm the name of the tech I dealt with and the name of the shop which did the test. It was a long long time ago.

To be fair I've had absolutely no problems with the new 614 binding that Atomic got me.

My sister also has the Xentrix 412s on a Atomic 9:22 and had no problems.

[Joanie]

LeeLau, thanks. That would be great.

I'm curious as to whether the issues may have been with the Centro 412. I'm also wondering if maybe the Centro was the demo binding and the Xentrix was similar, but not the demo/rental. Maybe someone else on the board will know.

I'm anxious to see if anyone else has had pre-release issues with the Centro 412 in particular. Something's not right here at all.

Also, reading what L7 wrote, it would seem odd to me that you have to take precautions outside of the company's own specs to keep the pre-release from happening! What the heck?

[cooltsi]

2) NEVER EVER turn up the forward pressure screw with the boot already in the binding. This is the source of most prerelease problems. It should not be done with any binding but other bindings may tolerate it, these will not. If this has been done there is a good chance the worm screw (or band) has been stripped.

You lost me. How else do you set the forward pressure? The boot has to be in the binding to set the forward pressure. I'm assuming you mean, that turning the screw up beyond the normal setting should not be done with the boot in. So, set the binding like normal, then release the boot and turn an additional X amount of turns? You might want to specify how far or at least give an idea. Two turns 'might' be too much. Any binding that strips if you turn up the forward pressure is crap in my opinion. The band on the Atomic is really thin and a poor design in my opinion. If nothing else, I think it's BS to have to compensate for a poor design.

No personal experience on the NEOX but the older one is not stout enough for anything beyond recreational skiing(1018 aside).

[Vitamin I]

...The boot has to be in the binding to set the forward pressure...

No, turning that screw with boot in can strip/warp the metal band. If you want to see how frail the metal band looks, slide the heel piece off the track and look at the wimpy grooves that interface with the wormscrew on the underside of the heelpiece.

L7 means you should turn the forward pressure screw "blindly" while boot is out, then stop turning screw, insert boot, and check position of forward pressure screw while boot is in. The screw position won't be perfect on your first guess, so remove boot again, and turn screw again to refine its position. Then reinsert boot to check position again, and repeat the process until screw is flush with housing while boot is in (or to a position 1-2mm inside the housing if you wanna try L7's suggestion to reduce pre-release by increasinig forward pressure).

Bonus points: Insert and remove boot a few times to verify that your screw position remains where you just set it.

Agreed: Atomic should try to suck less. 1018 performs better, but same weak metal band.

.

[Joanie]

Geez, you've gotta be kidding me.

I mean...I appreciate all of the knowledge you have about all of this, but really. Suppose I go to a mountain shop and rent a set of skis with Atomic Centro 412 bindings. Am I suppose to convince the shop to do what you're talking about here? I don't think so.

And if I buy a pair of SX11's with these bindings on them and don't know any of the particulars you're talking about here, (and neither does the shop owner), then same thing.

You've got the dins and that's about it. So I go off on a pair of shitty bindings from a bad batch that Atomic put out and never recalled? What a bunch of crap.

I'm sorry, but this enrages me. They put out crap and I spin out a header on a pre-release and wreck my knee and my shoulder.

They owe me a new set of bindings at the very least.

Anybody else spin out of a set of Centro 412's on a pre-release and get Atomic to send you a new set when your bindings weren't under warranty?

[falou]

I had some 412's 2 or 3 years ago and turned the forward pressure screw so it was recessed 1 or 2 mm and never had a problem. Just adjust it without your boot and check it with your boot in like was said. Really very simple. My Tyrolia's have released more than my Atomics did. I think mine were Xentrix though, not sure what the Centros are but the earlier ones were supposed to have more problems.

[L7]

Xentrix has a higher lift plate, Centro is the demo track quick and easy adjustment for boot sole but not for position on ski.

Yes turn the screw one or two 'clicks' to get the 1 or 2 mils. Any shop should adjust any binding this way but many bindings are more tolerant of the mistreatment. I will often turn the screw too far in (boot out) and back it off with the boot in to desired location.

The neox does not have the issue and is also tolerant of snow under boot...ie they made it more idiot proof.

[Joanie]

Thanks very much, friends.

L7 wrote:

Xentrix has a higher lift plate, Centro is the demo track quick and easy adjustment for boot sole but not for position on ski.

Okay, thank you. That explains the difference between them.

Centro would be found on a rental system then, most likely.

Are you familiar with the older Centro (in my case 412), L7? I'm starting to read of a general heel spring issue with them. These are from somewhere around 2000-2003 or so, I think.

Hard to find skiers who remember equip from that far back!

Unless of course they took a header like me.

[CantDog]

Geez, you've gotta be kidding me.

I mean...I appreciate all of the knowledge you have about all of this, but really. Suppose I go to a mountain shop and rent a set of skis with Atomic Centro 412 bindings. Am I suppose to convince the shop to do what you're talking about here? I don't think so.

And if I buy a pair of SX11's with these bindings on them and don't know any of the particulars you're talking about here, (and neither does the shop owner), then same thing.

You've got the dins and that's about it. So I go off on a pair of shitty bindings from a bad batch that Atomic put out and never recalled? What a bunch of crap.

I'm sorry, but this enrages me. They put out crap and I spin out a header on a pre-release and wreck my knee and my shoulder.

They owe me a new set of bindings at the very least.

Anybody else spin out of a set of Centro 412's on a pre-release and get Atomic to send you a new set when your bindings weren't under warranty?

You dont want a new pair of bindings, you want another brand of binding. Like Rossignols/Looks or Salomons.

Atomic made a bad binding. They took the ESS design and didnt improve upon it much. The best thing you can do is not use those bindings. There is a reason why older salomon and look bindings are so coveted here. They work. They work well.

The truth is most people who use atomic bindings will not notice the pre release. If they do, they will think its their own skiing. They might even go to the shop and have them tighten it. But the bulk wont go search out internet forums and find out that indeed, their bindings suck.

Be thankful you found out before you hurt yourself, and dont use their products again.

[L7]

^^^^^
Unless of course you read my post and realize you can avoid prerelease in the bindings by simply adjusting it correctly.

Thanks very much, friends.

L7 wrote:



Okay, thank you. That explains the difference between them.

Centro would be found on a rental system then, most likely.

Are you familiar with the older Centro (in my case 412), L7? I'm starting to read of a general heel spring issue with them. These are from somewhere around 2000-2003 or so, I think.

Hard to find skiers who remember equip from that far back!

Unless of course they took a header like me.

That was around that one batch of bindings had an internal part that bent (not the spring). The test to see if that is the case is described in my earlier post with the free movement of the released lever. I am describing the same thing you are talking about.

[CantDog]

^^^^^
Unless of course you read my post and realize you can avoid prerelease in the bindings by simply adjusting it correctly.



That was around that one batch of bindings had an internal part that bent (not the spring). The test to see if that is the case is described in my earlier post with the free movement of the released lever. I am describing the same thing you are talking about.

True, but like I mentioned, the only way you'd know that is to check this place out.

I had atomic bindings on a pair of 9.18s a few years ago(before I discovered the powder board and tgr) and prereleased all the time. I thought it was because I sucked at skiing(which I still do). Then i got them tested, they cranked the din up, and still the same problem. I sold those things so fast....

[Joanie]

Thanks, guys.

L7, you wrote:

That was around that one batch of bindings had an internal part that bent (not the spring). The test to see if that is the case is described in my earlier post with the free movement of the released lever. I am describing the same thing you are talking about.

When was the bad batch on the market exactly? And how can I identify whether or not I have a set of bindings from that bad batch?

I'm not as knowledgeable or well-versed about this stuff as you are, so when you write this:

Also check the binding with no boot in it and the heel cup up. The back lever should move freely. If it does not move freely in this position there is a broken internal piece that happened with a limited production and you MIGHT still get somewhere with warranty.

...I need to just confirm with you: If I try to move the back lever and it does NOT move freely (with heel cup up and no boot in the binding), then I definitely have a set of bindings from this so-called "bad batch"?

How come they didn't publicize that there was a bad batch? I mean...I could have killed myself on these freaking things! Nearly did.

Do you know anything more about when the bad batch was sold/rented/whatever? And how did you find out about the bad batch???

CantDog is right...without some heavy duty research on ski boards a person might never know about this, right? Or was it advertised? Recall issued? Anything?

[L7]

...I need to just confirm with you: If I try to move the back lever and it does NOT move freely (with heel cup up and no boot in the binding), then I definitely have a set of bindings from this so-called "bad batch"?

Yes

How come they didn't publicize that there was a bad batch? I mean...I could have killed myself on these freaking things! Nearly did.

Atomic dealers knew about it, the problem didn't necessarily show up right away. I suppose if you filled in a warranty registration card they could notify you but who actually fills those out and do the bindings even come with one?

Do you know anything more about when the bad batch was sold/rented/whatever? And how did you find out about the bad batch???

CantDog is right...without some heavy duty research on ski boards a person might never know about this, right? Or was it advertised? Recall issued? Anything?

Or by having only an Atomic certified rep touch your bindings which is what all the literature for Atomic and other bindings tell you to do. The literature also tells you to have a tech check the bindings every season. Did you or CanDog do this? Things happen and other bindings have had similar problems that you would only here about at a shop certified for that binding.

[Joanie]

Well...what you said is that there was a "bad batch" of Atomic bindings first of all, and that is what I am inquiring about. I want to know more about this "bad batch".

Secondly, YES a certified Atomic tech set these up according to spec and out of the shop and onto the slopes I went. Just like that. From the tech to the slopes. Period.

[L7]

Well...what you said is that there was a "bad batch" of Atomic bindings first of all, and that is what I am inquiring about. I want to know more about this "bad batch".

Secondly, YES a certified Atomic tech set these up according to spec and out of the shop and onto the slopes I went. Just like that. From the tech to the slopes. Period.

And maybe you have a set that the heel lever sticks on with the cup up which may not have become apparent until recently. Check it, go from there. If your shop adjusted them in a way no certified tech should maybe the guy's an idiot, maybe someone did them who shouldn't of. I suggest you take it up with them. I really don't know the history of you and your binding but your shop should be able to help you out.