Mammoth inbounds avy

**mikemcee** · 12-14-2007, 09:58 AM

Cross post from t-tips but a scary, worthwhile read.

http://www.telemarktips.com/FSneverSame.html

**YoEddy** · 12-14-2007, 10:26 AM

Wow - that's some scary shit! I've been in similar situations many many times, and have thought the same things that went through their minds, but never had anything come down like that.
Makes me think seriously about an avalung.

**DharmaBum** · 12-14-2007, 10:37 AM

That's an excellent write-up. As I was reading I kept saying to myself, "But it was inbounds," like the possibility just wouldn't compute, much less the actual event. Gald all involved made it through.

**snowsprite** · 12-14-2007, 10:45 AM

Rob says that he immediately began cart-wheeling, twisting and turning within the slide, and that his throat soon filled up with snow. He added that as things began to slow down, he tried to get a hand up to his mouth to create an air pocket, but that he could not raise his arms up against the force of the snow. Rob was convinced that he was going to die.

Holy crap! Scary and sobering. Glad you guys are okay...

Sprite

**steve** · 12-14-2007, 10:49 AM

I went from " oh wow, an inbounds avy at mammoth " to "HOLY SHIT! Mitch and Tim were involved!!"

Those two are great people. I was really relieved to read that everyone was ok..

-steve

**mikemcee** · 12-14-2007, 10:56 AM

Aside from them getting carried/buried, the scariest thing is that they had already skied it once AND that it was already bombed TWICE!

At least this one had a happy ending.

**kidwoo** · 12-14-2007, 10:58 AM

Thanks for posting that.

**The Dad** · 12-14-2007, 11:00 AM

Holy crap indeed.

**Mach Looney** · 12-14-2007, 11:03 AM

Damn. So who's going to start bringing beacon, probe, and shovel to inbounds powder days? And only ski with others who do the same?

**comish** · 12-14-2007, 11:03 AM

One of our buddies had skied it already that morning and was shocked to find the crown and debris field when he went back for another run later in the day.

This is the 3rd post control release at Mammoth I have seen / been near in the last couple years.

I have definitely been thinking about skiing at the very least with a beacon on a pow day in-bounds and stories like this are definitely becoming more common.

**skimoore** · 12-14-2007, 11:05 AM

Wow...that's intense.

**buckethead** · 12-14-2007, 11:13 AM

damn, scary stuff indeed...and yes, unexpected after bombing and a run through the same area!
glad all were ok.

**powdork** · 12-14-2007, 11:25 AM

Damn. So who's going to start bringing beacon, probe, and shovel to inbounds powder days? And only ski with others who do the same?

maybe a recco chip would be better.

**boredboiseboy** · 12-14-2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Mod Yodler

Aside from them getting carried/buried, the scariest thing is that they had already skied it once AND that it was already bombed TWICE!

At least this one had a happy ending.

I think that happened with that big inbounds avy what, one or two years ago?

**dre66** · 12-14-2007, 11:42 AM

I'm not sure how the terrain sets up at mammoth but in w/b there are some parts of inbounds that could take a long time to ski out and alert patrol and up to 5 minutes before patrol got to the slide... in an avy your partners are your only viable source of rescue in a full burial situation imho. W/B is generally very good about avy control work, but freak accidents, like the one described here, can happen. I think that gear, snowpack and terrain management are the same inbounds as well as OB. Even after control work has been done other factors (top/cross loading, sun, etc) can continue to affect the snow. Knowing how to effectively manage terrain, snow, etc is very important inbounds on some days and thinking about these things is good practice for when you decide to take a walk OB.

**mikemcee** · 12-14-2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by alpinedad

Oh, and Slide Zone, JONGs. <grin>

Ski / Snowboard (283 Viewing)

The Slide Zone (7 Viewing)

But hey, I am what I am.

**Burrrr** · 12-14-2007, 12:21 PM

The perspective was very humbling in this excellent write up. Really scary stuff. I was skiing Pali the day before it slid at A-basin. I couldn't beleive it when it happened and the size of it! Correct me if I'm wrong that it was the second in-bounds avalanche fatality since Crested Butte back in the 70's. I guess when Pali slid it did not get below freezing temps the previous night. It freaked me out.

I will honestly say that I take in-bounds Avalanche safety for granted, not even a thought while in the resort.

Although it seems rare for an in-bounds slide to trigger naturally, when it does it always seems catastrophic in size.

**Burrrr** · 12-14-2007, 12:22 PM

Did Rob go buy a lottery ticket afterwards?

**grskier** · 12-14-2007, 12:25 PM

Amazing write up.... very sobering. Glad to hear everyone got out OK.

**erica_z** · 12-14-2007, 12:26 PM

scawey. I din't hear about this til now.....weird how stuff like this gets hushed up sometimes....

be careful out there

**DJSapp** · 12-14-2007, 12:32 PM

Holy crap, glad Mitch & co are ok.

**hutash** · 12-14-2007, 12:48 PM

When I first read this I was going to call bullshit, having skied there on the 9th, and it was not a very big storm, et cetera, but then I saw who it was, and I believe Mitch and Tim. I ski with a beacon now on big days, but I wouldn't have considered that a "big day". Guess I will change my mind on that point, and carry more gear more often. There was a good size slide on climax, which was closed, don't know if it was natural or troller induced, so the instability was evident.

Mammoth has some big inbounds avi's after storms, both natural and patrol released, but this is the second post control release in as many years. Looks like the top is going to be even slower to open in the future.

Glad everybody is okay. Staff safe

**The Dad** · 12-14-2007, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mod Yodler

Ski / Snowboard (283 Viewing)

The Slide Zone (7 Viewing)

Hence the wry <grin> afterwards. It actually rarely makes a difference to me, since I usually use the "new posts" button rather than looking in a specific forum. I don't know whether it's more an issue for others.

**Ted Shred** · 12-14-2007, 01:06 PM

Wow, that is some scary shit that could happen to any of us. I am glad that everybody is OK.

This makes me think of so many situations that I have led myself into that this could easily have happened. Inbounds powder frenzy is a powerful experience that mixed with complacency do to familiar inbounds terrain can quickly override any thoughts of safety.

**Skis4Fun** · 12-14-2007, 01:27 PM

According to the TelemarkTips.com story "Never Gonna Be The Same" by Mitch Weber www.telemarktips.com/FSneverSame.html, this inbounds avalanche occurred in early December 2007 on P3 (Paranoid 3) at Mammoth, CA while the group of 4 skiers (including Mitch & Big Tim) were skiing on 3 feet of new snow over a frozen rock & dirt base.

* One skier had fallen on top of a wide apron on P3 and another skier in the group had skied out the gully (P3) towards P2 and onto a low ridge that ran from top to bottom and was directly above the fallen skier when the avalanche was triggered.

* This avalanche occurred during the group's 2nd run of the day on P3 after the terrain was opened up around noon after avalanche control.

* The head patroller in charge that day had skied P3 between the group's 1st and 2nd run.

* The crown was 40" high, the initial slab that triggered the slide was 80 x 80 feet, and the avalanche covered 1,500 vertical feet and ran about 2,500 feet (see story for avalanche path photo & compelling first person account).

...The takeaway by skiers involved was "In the future we will carry our full complement of avy gear in our Avalung equipped backpacks, and we will pay far more attention to our own stability assessments, as well as adhere closely to the basic protocols of safe travel in avalanche country. In short, we are going to ski inbounds powder as prepared and with the same attention to avoidance as we currently do in the backcountry."

Other comments by the group:

..."In retrospect, the fallen skier should have gotten up as quickly as possible after his fall and moved to the side, out of the mouth of the gully. And the rest of us should have encouraged him to do so, but we were being considerably less than fully backcountry-like vigilant. It was our second time through the same shot, inbounds, on an open run, and on an avy controlled slope (I noted at least two bomb holes)."

..."Our days of romping around, feeling nearly carefree in steep powder at the area are over for good. It's simply an opportunity and a challenge to stay sharp, and to be prepared on each and every powder day, no matter the venue."

..."It was a sight I will never forget as long as I will live: a wall of snow 10 feet high and some 100 feet wide rushing and rumbling down the wide gully known as "P3," heading straight for the fallen skier." The author was just getting the camera out and was planning to direct the uphill skier to ski towards him for a good photo angle.

...The fallen skier comments. "I immediately began cart-wheeling, twisting and turning within the slide, and my throat soon filled up with snow. As things began to slow down, I tried to get a hand up to my mouth to create an air pocket, but I could not raise my arms up against the force of the snow. I was convinced that I was going to die." The fallen skier was fully buried, except for most of his head and part of one shoulder.

...During the initial visual scan to find his friends, the author (Mitch) thought: "I need to organize a search right now," my heart sank as I considered for a moment just how I was going to do this without transceivers, shovels or probes. It was the worst feeling in the world. I can't even begin to describe the awful feeling of helplessness, and the utter and complete despair which was washing over me at that moment."

Here are some photos of the area:

P1 to P4 from Mammoth Ski Patrol's excellent snow and avalanche path atlas map at http://patrol.mammothmountain.com/Atlas/Atlas.html

If you go to this link from Mammoth Ski Patrol http://patrol.mammothmountain.com/At...s/scottys.html, click on Shot Placements to see where the avy shots are placed. Clicking on Path Information for P3 shows Elevation 10,400 ft, Vertical 1100 ft, Length 3000 ft, Starting Inclination 40 degrees, Path Inclination 28 degrees, Aspect 30 degrees.

P3 to P4 to Kiwi Flats area (late season April 2006 photo that I shot from my TR: Mammoth - Fun on Philippe's & P4/Paranoid 4 http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=76831). P3 is the leftmost gully in this photo. You can see a few skiers on the ridge of P4 to get a sense of the scale.

There was another inbounds avalanche on Climax at Mammoth on April 17, 2006 which partially buried 3 skiers (see www.powdermag.com/news/mammoth-avalanche/ for story and photos. More photos http://forums.mammothmountain.com/fo...threadid=12477 and from cheapski http://community.webshots.com/album/549603133mwGcyW

What do you normally carry on inbounds powder days? Will this type of incident cause you to change your habits on inbounds powder days? If so, what do you plan to carry (beacon, shovel, probe, avalung, etc.) or do differently?