What rehab place?

**mtngirl79** · 03-28-2017, 01:47 AM

Get a mountain bike?

**St. Jerry** · 03-28-2017, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Ketamine clinic? The research happening with ketamine and depression is pretty intriguing:

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news...e-depression#1
http://time.com/4326167/depression-ketamine/
http://thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy...392-2/fulltext
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00088699

Second this suggestion

**guroo270** · 03-28-2017, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by The AD

This example confuses me. What are you trying to say here? Guy's had a lifetime of First World problems?

Pretty much. What I think he was trying to get across, though, was that that he's been there and done that, now what do I really have to look forward to? The depression that sets in on him is along the lines of "What can this world offer that I haven't done? Why even get out of bed anymore?" The political part effects this part of him, too. "These fuckers in office are just going to destroy everything I give a fuck about anyways and rape everyone's pockets along the way." Stuff like that.

You could chalk it up to him being a pussy, but I really think it's the depression keeping him down. With healthcare, or sick care as he calls it, "why bother with rehab? I pay $400 bucks a month for insurance that covers nothing, so get better and come out to having to sell everything I've worked for to cover bills? No thanks." Honestly he had an amazing childhood, but post 20 it's been a pretty hard life with major setbacks. I know, like everyone.

I just don't know what to say to the guy other than, well, we want you around. All in all I think he makes some good points, but you can't tell him that.

Kinda why I thought, well hey, have you tried DMT in the right setting? I don't know what that is, but have heard stories of people changing their whole perspective. Or the mushroom therapy. Dude thinks doctors never do any good and generally despises the medical field. And I guess ketamine. And thank you all. I hate when the boards get depressing.

**mtnjam** · 03-28-2017, 08:40 AM

Straight, Inc....Mel and Betty Sembler's staff will take great care of him. (trying to keep it light)

Seriously though, hope your friend finds the sunshine he needs in this grey world.

Couldn't agree more on the wilderness therapy bit though. Nothing like a solo backpacking trip and a bag of mushrooms to really find yourself.

**neufox47** · 03-28-2017, 09:20 AM

http://reset.me Has some interesting info on some of the alternative practices.

http://www.maps.org/about research organization

**Dantheman** · 03-28-2017, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by TBS

Also growing body of literature for microdosing acid to treat depression
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...dosing/513035/

Originally Posted by iceman

I've seen quite a bit on microdosing lately because of Ayelet Weldman (writer, wife of Michael Chabon), here's a recent New Yorker piece on her and acid: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/per...y-doses-of-lsd

Just the other day I saw a piece on depression and psilocybin too. Not sure where I saw it.

This wasn't the piece I just saw but it's along the same lines about psilocybin: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/h...epression.html

There's a lot of promising research happening with LSD, MDMA and psilocybin for PTSD, so it's not too surprising that there may be crossover with depression too. Ketamine has the distinct advantage of not being a Schedule I drug.

**mtngirl79** · 03-28-2017, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by guroo270

Pretty much. What I think he was trying to get across, though, was that that he's been there and done that, now what do I really have to look forward to? The depression that sets in on him is along the lines of "What can this world offer that I haven't done? Why even get out of bed anymore?" The political part effects this part of him, too. "These fuckers in office are just going to destroy everything I give a fuck about anyways and rape everyone's pockets along the way." Stuff like that.

You could chalk it up to him being a pussy, but I really think it's the depression keeping him down. With healthcare, or sick care as he calls it, "why bother with rehab? I pay $400 bucks a month for insurance that covers nothing, so get better and come out to having to sell everything I've worked for to cover bills? No thanks." Honestly he had an amazing childhood, but post 20 it's been a pretty hard life with major setbacks. I know, like everyone.

I just don't know what to say to the guy other than, well, we want you around. All in all I think he makes some good points, but you can't tell him that.

Kinda why I thought, well hey, have you tried DMT in the right setting? I don't know what that is, but have heard stories of people changing their whole perspective. Or the mushroom therapy. Dude thinks doctors never do any good and generally despises the medical field. And I guess ketamine. And thank you all. I hate when the boards get depressing.

No treatment or rehab will fix this guy...

**guroo270** · 03-28-2017, 11:53 AM

^^^^ yeah, I just don't know. Maybe if I can convince him nature is gonna be around for a little while still and he should enjoy it.

Originally Posted by ghosthop

Even being around a good group of friends on shrams while sober myself leaves me refreshed and optimistic the next day.

Huh. I didn't know one could do that. I mean, I knew a Mormon guy in college that liked to hang with us heathens that partied but I thought that was the exception.

**Meanfruit** · 03-28-2017, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by guroo270

^^^^ yeah, I just don't know. Maybe if I can convince him nature is gonna be around for a little while still and he should enjoy it.

Huh. I didn't know one could do that. I mean, I knew a Mormon guy in college that liked to hang with us heathens that partied but I thought that was the exception.

He should have been here for Reagan. Your buddy would've flipped his lid. In all seriousness, depression has nothing to do with money, status, first world problems. It's brain chemistry. Hope he comes around, it's not likely to get better without some type of therapy.

**mad847** · 03-28-2017, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by guroo270

Pretty much. What I think he was trying to get across, though, was that that he's been there and done that, now what do I really have to look forward to? The depression that sets in on him is along the lines of "What can this world offer that I haven't done? Why even get out of bed anymore?" The political part effects this part of him, too. "These fuckers in office are just going to destroy everything I give a fuck about anyways and rape everyone's pockets along the way." Stuff like that.

You could chalk it up to him being a pussy, but I really think it's the depression keeping him down. With healthcare, or sick care as he calls it, "why bother with rehab? I pay $400 bucks a month for insurance that covers nothing, so get better and come out to having to sell everything I've worked for to cover bills? No thanks." Honestly he had an amazing childhood, but post 20 it's been a pretty hard life with major setbacks. I know, like everyone.

I just don't know what to say to the guy other than, well, we want you around. All in all I think he makes some good points, but you can't tell him that.

Kinda why I thought, well hey, have you tried DMT in the right setting? I don't know what that is, but have heard stories of people changing their whole perspective. Or the mushroom therapy. Dude thinks doctors never do any good and generally despises the medical field. And I guess ketamine. And thank you all. I hate when the boards get depressing.

Sounds like a bit of psychizophrenia going on here. Usually the treatment for it is drug therapy plus in person therapy. It is very possible this person has a chemical imbalance and untreated a lot of these people end up homeless. Sad if he goes untreated.

**Dantheman** · 03-28-2017, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

No treatment or rehab will fix this guy...

Kind of a callous thing for you of all people to say. Not that you've necessarily suffered "a lifetime of First World problems," but you seem to have had your fair share of self-perpetuating self-pity. Agree with mad847 that this guy quite likely has a chemical imbalance and possibly other psychiatric issues that may be slowly worsening with age. See: Terry Bradshaw.

**mud** · 03-28-2017, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by guroo270

I'm asking for a friend. He says white walls and no hills make him sad. If there's a place that can be an inspiration or whatever, where is it?

Why are you asking us instead of him?

Sit him down and say hey buddy where do you want to go.

Not everyone needs a rehab, some of my hardest battles were solved with a road trip someplace new and exciting with a good friend.

**guroo270** · 03-28-2017, 04:03 PM

Other side of the globe at the moment. And I'm no dentist.

**Dhelihiker** · 03-28-2017, 05:10 PM

Heroin [/thread]

**mtngirl79** · 03-28-2017, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Kind of a callous thing for you of all people to say. Not that you've necessarily suffered "a lifetime of First World problems," but you seem to have had your fair share of self-perpetuating self-pity. Agree with mad847 that this guy quite likely has a chemical imbalance and possibly other psychiatric issues that may be slowly worsening with age. See: Terry Bradshaw.

All these rehab places getting posted up and taking psychedelic drugs.. small doses... whatever.

Dude needs to change his perspective. It cannot be changed for him.

To be clear, he should by all means seek professional help... I just don't see some fancy rehab place "fixing him".. it's a life long process.

I guess that's callous, I don't know.

**Swine** · 03-28-2017, 07:56 PM

I spent a number of years in wilderness therapy and therapeutic organizations. They're mostly geared towards teenagers, although there are some adult programs. It's not really fun hiking in the woods. It's an extremely clinically intense environment and is designed to transition into an aftercare environment - not a one stop shop at all. Also, it's heinously expensive (think 500 bucks a day and up, usually with a minimum of around 10-20k up front with a commitment to stay at least that long) and unless you're Canadian no insurance will cover it.

It can be very powerful, but there still aren't good long term studies regarding efficacy, although they're working on them.

I'd start with outpatient therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. Also, I'd avoid throwing around labels like schizophrenia, or any label in general. FWIW though, from your description, that is definitely not schizophrenia.

**CantDog** · 03-29-2017, 11:28 AM

Recommending a good therapist to this person may be tremendously helpful. Id put my money there before these wilderness therapy, ayahuasca, ketamine ideas.

The ketamine literature is growing and I find myself seriously considering it in some cases whereas a year or so ago that wasn't the case. Unfortunately clinically the results I've had haven't been that impressive. Insurance doesn't want to cover it and to do so is a struggle. I've snuck around that by doing IV push after ECT treatments with some patients to try and bolster the effect.

Probably the place Ketamine use has been most helpful is end of life for depression and pain.

Psilocybin and other hallucinogens have growing evidence...but problematic is much of the work around it is done in south/Central American cultures where the use of these entheogens are in the context of a religious or spiritual community. I am dubious about the typical american trying it and experiencing similar benefits without the ritualistic structure that surrounds use in other countries. The positive antidotes about psilocybins benefit has been at the end of life, where a therapist will 'guide' the person through the experience. I believe that part is invaluable.

MAPS organization mentioned earlier is a really interesting group, and their annual conference is next month in Oakland. Wish I could go.

**ghosthop** · 04-02-2017, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by guroo270

Huh. I didn't know one could do that. I mean, I knew a Mormon guy in college that liked to hang with us heathens that partied but I thought that was the exception.

/drift for a quick minute

Have you met someone who is the opposite, where it makes them physically ill to be around others who are seriously partying/wasted/etc.? I have wondered if it is some sort of placebo effect, like throwing a party with fake alcohol, and my brain is conditioned to know the way it's supposed to feel coming down after a night of shrams.