Replacing a perfect footbed?

**Gaperious Basterd** · 03-17-2017, 12:50 PM

I've skied in Fischer Vacuum RC4 130s for five seasons. Between the lug wear, the liner, and footbed, all need to be replaced, so I must resume the whole process which is not easy and guarantees multiple vacuum attempts and often post-molding spot punches.

But the biggest thing I think is the footbed (which has nothing to do with the vacuum process).

I doubt I'll get back to the out-of-town boot fitter who made my footbeds, so I'm wondering what common commercial footbed custom options are most like the ones where the boot fitter places a mostly unweighted foot (customer sitting in chair) on a pillow and molds them to your foot with his hand?

So I'm thinking all the molding options (instaprint, conformable) get every knook and cranny of your foot (which can cause pain) compared to the described method that just gets a general mold of the bottom of your foot.

**XXX-er** · 03-17-2017, 01:51 PM

Footbeds are not a print medium so we got no idea what your foot looks like

In any case they are all good for something SO you gotta try them all to find what works FOR YOU

I got some green superfeet which cmae used in a boot and they don't quite cut it for me

I been rocking the sole for > 10 yrs the sole work very well for this flatfooted azn and I don't heat mold them

just as well as my 300$ customs made by the foot specialist

**gregL** · 03-18-2017, 09:31 AM

Why do you think it's the perfect footbed? Do you ski sitting in a chair with almost no weight on your feet? Or are you just used to it?

**Gaperious Basterd** · 03-18-2017, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

Why do you think it's the perfect footbed? Do you ski sitting in a chair with almost no weight on your feet? Or are you just used to it?

My feet don't hurt and I like how I ski. But yes, I am used to it after five seasons.

**gregL** · 03-18-2017, 10:47 AM

The closest you will come to that is probably to have a podiatrist or pedorthist cast you feet lying prone or with feet suspended, then molding the footbed blank to the casting. Next would be a shop that uses the Superfeet unweighted system. The SIDAS and Instaprint methods both involve some degree of weighting.

**jacob_dbu** · 03-18-2017, 10:55 AM

When I did Instaprint, I was sitting down and it seemed pretty unweighted to me and I liked how they turned out. Sorry that's not very helpful...

Is the footbed really that torn up?

**XavierD** · 03-18-2017, 11:02 AM

Sitting down is considered partially weighted.

**Core Shot** · 03-18-2017, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd

I
But the biggest thing I think is the footbed (which has nothing to do with the vacuum process).

I doubt I'll get back to the out-of-town boot fitter who made my footbeds, so I'm wondering what common commercial footbed custom options are most like the ones where the boot fitter places a mostly unweighted foot (customer sitting in chair) on a pillow and molds them to your foot with his hand?
.

Most performance ski beds are made this way. The key is the expert placing your foot in the position it should be for skiing, rather than just molding what you have naturally. Align the bones, prevent the foot from collapsing and pronating.
Not sure how the instaprint and other "scanning" tools do what a skilled human can do on a vacuum bed. It is much more than just scanning your foot. It's putting your foot where it needs to be to ski properly.

Not sure how any off the shelf footbed can compare, unless you have magic feet that are already stable.

Try asking for a bootfitter rec for where you live. wherever that is. Or plan it for your next trip to ski country.

PS - how did the footdbed "wear out" ? they last almost forever. More likely to need a new one as your foot ages and changes.

**Gaperious Basterd** · 03-18-2017, 01:46 PM

To the folks wondering why I want a new footbed:

This is my just my personal opinion, but after perhaps 200 skiing days with sweaty feet on that surface, I believe the microbiome of the footbed has reached hazardous levels. Knowing what I know, I believe the footbed is hazardous to health.

Also knowing what I know, "cleaning" the footbed to achieve microbiological sterilization is not so simple.

**axebiker** · 03-18-2017, 02:14 PM

Cook 'em.

**auvgeek** · 03-18-2017, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd

To the folks wondering why I want a new footbed:

This is my just my personal opinion, but after perhaps 200 skiing days with sweaty feet on that surface, I believe the microbiome of the footbed has reached hazardous levels. Knowing what I know, I believe the footbed is hazardous to health.

Also knowing what I know, "cleaning" the footbed to achieve microbiological sterilization is not so simple.

Dude. 200 days on a footbed is nothing. Do you not wear socks?

**Gaperious Basterd** · 03-18-2017, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Dude. 200 days on a footbed is nothing. Do you not wear socks?

Maybe from a wearing out standpoint, but with feet sweat (which always happens to some degree and goes straight through socks), the relatively anaerobic environment inside a ski boot, and multiple seasons make for (again, in my own opinion) a multitude of micro organisms that pose threats to health both with contact, and with inhalation.

They cannot be heated or microwaved because they are heat-molds me thermoplastic (posted on a different type of base material). Solvent washes (I.e. Ethanol or isopropyl alcohol) can't be used because they could deleteriously interact with the thermoplastic and/or adhesive). For that reason, harsher microbiocides like quaternary amines, isothiazolonobes, parabens, etc (which sure as shit can't remain in any amount) can't be washed away 100%. Drug-grade antimicrobials cant be used due to the limitations of microbiocide spectrum, potential for colonization with drug-resistant strains, as well as toxicity issues of their own that would be consequent through percutaneous absorption).

For any agent used, degree of penetration into the materials of the footbed and contact time is an issue.

Therefore the solution is to throw them out and get new ones. Oh, my foot has slightly changed over five years. Win-win with new footbeds!

I didn't want the thread to become about this, as I know this topic is ripe for disagreement, and I sincerely didn't want to spell out my own rationale and thinking so as not to proselytize even implicitly and bore people with a topic fundamentally tangential to the question of if any commonly-used custom footbed molding systems might give me something that would approximate what I currently have in my boots.

**meepmoop24** · 03-18-2017, 03:15 PM

If you can find a place that does the Superfeet cork footbeds those are done with a vacuum machine while you're seated with your feet in the air. I had mine done at Larry's Bootfitting in Boulder and I'm happy with them.

**jacob_dbu** · 03-18-2017, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd

I didn't want the thread to become about this, as I know this topic is ripe for disagreement, and I sincerely didn't want to spell out my own rationale and thinking so as not to proselytize even implicitly and bore people with a topic fundamentally tangential to the question of if any commonly-used custom footbed molding systems might give me something that would approximate what I currently have in my boots.

Fairenough. And MRSA is no joke either. I used to play hockey and I knew someone who lost a foot from a MRSA infection.

Anyways, it sounds like what you would ideally want is something that could almost scan your current footbed and re-mill an exact replica. I'm sure you could find a custom place to do that, but they would have nothing to do with skiing.

**axebiker** · 03-18-2017, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd

I didn't want the thread to become about this, as I know this topic is ripe for disagreement, and I sincerely didn't want to spell out my own rationale and thinking so as not to proselytize even implicitly and bore people with a topic fundamentally tangential to the question of if any commonly-used custom footbed molding systems might give me something that would approximate what I currently have in my boots.

HOLY F'IN Thesaurus, Batman! Geez! You're gonna confuse the hell outta 95% of the dentists here!

**auvgeek** · 03-18-2017, 08:10 PM

I bet a podiatrist would do a good job for you. Your health insurance might even cover it.

**Core Shot** · 03-19-2017, 08:50 AM

Interesting Hygeine concerns.

I am more worried for my bootfitter than for me. God there is some nasty skanking boots out there. dont know how they deal with it. i would need to wear gloves. And possibly a respirator.

Personally, I would be more concerned about your liners than your footbeds. do you wash your liners? some do. Every other year I might wash in lukewarm water and woolite. if they get funky, try some enzyme cleaners that are used on wetsuits.
Speaking of wetsuits, I never pissed in my boots, but the wetsuit gets a golden shower now and then.

So.... why not wash said footbeds in lukewarm soapy water? or use some wetsuit enzyme cleaner? Neither of those will damage them.

What about peroxide? yeah its an oxidizer, but very mild one. it should not hurt the plastic part of a footbed, but not sure about the foot contact surface.
worth a try if you are going to throw them out anyway.

**XXX-er** · 03-19-2017, 06:10 PM

Wow ^^^ lotsa big words

so everyday kinda people who may not even ski will often need footbeds in their shoes or work boots and they wear them every day for years and years, my dad used to walk many miles every night in the plant and he died with both his feet still attached to his body

I supose you could wash yer footbeds or put em in the freezer or sft

or just not worry

**Jethro** · 03-19-2017, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gaperious Basterd

Maybe from a wearing out standpoint, but with feet sweat (which always happens to some degree and goes straight through socks), the relatively anaerobic environment inside a ski boot, and multiple seasons make for (again, in my own opinion) a multitude of micro organisms that pose threats to health both with contact, and with inhalation.

They cannot be heated or microwaved because they are heat-molds me thermoplastic (posted on a different type of base material). Solvent washes (I.e. Ethanol or isopropyl alcohol) can't be used because they could deleteriously interact with the thermoplastic and/or adhesive). For that reason, harsher microbiocides like quaternary amines, isothiazolonobes, parabens, etc (which sure as shit can't remain in any amount) can't be washed away 100%. Drug-grade antimicrobials cant be used due to the limitations of microbiocide spectrum, potential for colonization with drug-resistant strains, as well as toxicity issues of their own that would be consequent through percutaneous absorption).

For any agent used, degree of penetration into the materials of the footbed and contact time is an issue.

Therefore the solution is to throw them out and get new ones. Oh, my foot has slightly changed over five years. Win-win with new footbeds!

I didn't want the thread to become about this, as I know this topic is ripe for disagreement, and I sincerely didn't want to spell out my own rationale and thinking so as not to proselytize even implicitly and bore people with a topic fundamentally tangential to the question of if any commonly-used custom footbed molding systems might give me something that would approximate what I currently have in my boots.

Antibacterial UV light

**gramboh** · 03-20-2017, 01:39 PM

Following this thread... my footbeds have about 7 seasons on them and stink. Badly. As do both my sets of Intuitions. To the point I worry about hut trips. I need to deal with this problem. I take them out of my boots after every ski day and let them air dry but that's about it, other than spraying some Dr. Scholls anti stink from time to time which probably doesn't do much.

**critical-motion** · 03-20-2017, 03:38 PM

I'm not going to apologize for being a little critical and perhaps condescending here, but have you ever heard of soap, water, and a little elbow grease? There's no reason to sterilize your footbeds and boots are far from being a true anaerobic environment and even further removed from serving as microbial pathogen incubators. It's not as if your foot is stuck in a jungle boot full of swamp water for weeks on end. I base this on my studies in medical bacteriology, virology, and a lack of data showing rampant foot rot amongst outdoor athletes.

If you want a little more vigorous cleaning, then you can soak your insoles and liners in warm water with a little oxyclean, then scrub and rinse. Hell, if you're still concerned, then you can sanitize your insoles with a mild solution of iodine or a food-grade, acid-based sanitizer like StarSan, then rinse off the sanitizer. But you can't be serious when you mention the use of harsh chemicals and antibiotics on your insoles, that's absurd.

**tyreed70** · 03-20-2017, 08:46 PM

I am far from an expert here just work everyday in the operating room, a fairly sterile environment. If you are that concerned with foot bacteria etc.. from a ski boot that gets aired out, is not a open wound or exposed to other bodily fluids other than sweat and skin cells. Its no different than wearing shoes. As far as I know I have not read any white papers about the people in referee outfits at foot locker dropping dead from flesh eating foot fungus to the face.

If your foot beds are nasty wash them, dry them out, throw in freezer, done deal.

**fcetoface** · 03-20-2017, 09:05 PM

"Boot juice" the spray most rental shops use kills AIDS....says it right on the list on the can....

**Gaperious Basterd** · 03-20-2017, 10:01 PM

Alright, well the thread's gone this way so I'll play (I'm also not an expert and was just explaining one of the reasons for wanting a new footbed, along with new boots and new liners).

Swamps were brought up: there is something called a terminal basin; this is where water collects (usually a pond or small "lake") and has no way out but evaporation. For that reason, things collect there. There are a couple examples but it's sooo far off topic. My point being: sweat collects in footbed and liner, evaporates, etc, but the solid contents of the sweat just collect there, like a pond that has no outlet.

Operating rooms were brought up, so: in operating rooms I've observed, the littlest mistake can cause an entire package of towels to be thrown out because they are no longer sterile. Seems to me operating rooms kind of underscores to the importance of surface cleanliness.

Foot locker was brought up, so.... well, if people come in with shoes that have gone through 200-300 drench-dry cycles over a five year period, umm, they are not clean.

If anyone has easy access to culture media and incubators, take footbed and liner scrapings and run bacterial and fungal cultures. Then, identify all species present.

Shower, floor, carpet, sock, lodge/parking lot, boot, sweat, warmth, 4-6 hours, snow, steamy humid x 12 hours, repeat 20-100 days/year, store boots 200 days, repeat process x five years. FILTHY FILTHY FILTHY.

Not to mention wearing ski boots can sometimes create blisters/abrasions that compromise the barrier function of the skin and give pathogens better access to tissues to establish infection.

FYI: in my case, this logic applies more strongly to the liner, and--on this topic--is most of my concern and unequivocally is both worn out and probably very very unclean. But the footbed has been in there with it so I just want to start fresh.

This is my own opinion; I certainly don't want to influence anybody, and how long you keep your footbeds is up to you. For me it's been five seasons and for a host of reasons I want to replace it.

**Mofro261** · 03-20-2017, 10:47 PM

I have access to all manner of microbial testing and a wee bit of experience in this field, so here's some truth.
1) Your boots are not what's harboring bacteria- the bacteria are on you feet all of the time and part of the natural flora on the skin. 2)The bad odor is not the smell of bacteria itself, but the bacteria breaking down the sweat released from your feet, and compounded by being in a closed environment (more sweat, no where for odor to escape) that allows the boots to absorb the odor. 3) Drying your boots out completely will pretty much kill the majority of any organisms sloughed off your feet and onto the liner surfaces, but won't remove that pesky odor of decomposing sweat.

But if you are looking for new footbeds, I had good luck w/footbeds from the podiatrist last time I bothered to go the Rx route, they were made while seated and hand molded to my feet. After I wore them out/ got tired of switching insoles between every bit of footwear, I've gone with the green superfeet, which I have in all my shoes/boots. Also have used Sole otc footbeds with equal success.