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Thread: Alta Baldy Tram

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The locals think the resorts save the powder for the weekenders from the valley. The weekenders from the valley think they save the powder for the locals. Thus has it always been. Thus shall it always be.
    I took away that they save powder for tourists? Well that's how they make their fucking money. Delivering top quality product to the paying masses. You know the ones that get rooms eat 3 meals a day there. The bread and butter. Snowbird and Alta would shut down if it were only locals skiing/riding there. Stop being so entitled jaded locals.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    I took away that they save powder for tourists? Well that's how they make their fucking money. Delivering top quality product to the paying masses. You know the ones that get rooms eat 3 meals a day there. The bread and butter. Snowbird and Alta would shut down if it were only locals skiing/riding there. Stop being so entitled jaded locals.
    There is definitely enough of a local population base to run AltaBird sans tourists in a financially sustainable way. The operations would look more like Alpental, Bogus, and Bridger. Park City and Deer Valley might not be viable in any form, though.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    There is definitely enough of a local population base to run AltaBird sans tourists in a financially sustainable way. The operations would look more like Alpental, Bogus, and Bridger. Park City and Deer Valley might not be viable in any form, though.
    I would think like pow mow maybe yeah. Limited base ops etc, but that's clearly not happening. Tourists is where da cash is at.

    For the record I have zero issues with them putting in any lifts they want on their land. Period.

  4. #29
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    b right on manages to make money selling a extremely limited lodging skiing/riding experience.
    their mountain and bc access seems to always be open.
    if someone else is sking all your powder
    you aints doin it right
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    b right on manages to make money selling a extremely limited lodging skiing/riding experience.
    their mountain and bc access seems to always be open.
    if someone else is sking all your powder
    you aints doin it right
    Does Brighton make money? I would assume so, but I never want to make that assumption about Boyne.

  6. #31
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    theyre entire mountain is highspeed quad accessible the lots almost always full
    people are always in line buying tickets, i buy $15 one riders for the wife and touring crew, ski school is always on the mountain with groups of kids. how could the rose and molly's not make $$.
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  7. #32
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    It's hard to say what these resorts make as they are private. Skier visits kept close, etc.. I still find it hard to imagine that there are enough skiing locals to sustain much of an operation in the Wasatch. I doubt pow mow is in the black.

  8. #33
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    It would be a shame to (further) ruin a very aesthetic mountain by slapping a tram up there... especially since they actually open that terrain almost never, at least this year.

    Replacing Cecret/Supreme with 1 lift + angle station would be awesome though... also the East Castle idea. Baldy's good how it is.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    It's hard to say what these resorts make as they are private. Skier visits kept close, etc.. I still find it hard to imagine that there are enough skiing locals to sustain much of an operation in the Wasatch. I doubt pow mow is in the black.
    You're definitely wrong. Skifishbum is right that Brighton ought to be making money. Bridger and Bogus both operate in the black with much smaller local population bases than we have in the SLC, and their financials are full open-kimono. Google it. The stuff near Seattle is also all day trippers with no resort hotels, though looking up the financials is tougher. Shit, Teton Pass, MT eeks out a living. Look at the census data for that population! I kind of like those places, personally. I'm more of a riblet than a high speed 6 pack kinda guy. But de gustibus, etc.

    Pow Mow struggles to make money because they are the second-best ski area in the Eden/Huntsville metropolitan area.

    Anyhow, this discussion is neither here nor there. The tram idea just strikes me as odd.

  10. #35
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    Most of the improvements on that list are inconsequential or make logical sense. But a tram up Baldy? Fuck off.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Does Brighton make money? I would assume so, but I never want to make that assumption about Boyne.
    In the 90's I was under the impression that Brighton made the most money out of all of the Cottonwood areas. They nailed it with the snowboarder and family crowds as I recall.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbillie1 View Post
    It would be a shame to (further) ruin a very aesthetic mountain by slapping a tram up there... especially since they actually open that terrain almost never, at least this year.

    Replacing Cecret/Supreme with 1 lift + angle station would be awesome though... also the East Castle idea. Baldy's good how it is.
    I was thinking that if they put a tram up there they would be more inclined to keep it open and with skier compaction throughout the whole season it would be a lot easier.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingArizona View Post
    I was thinking that if they put a tram up there they would be more inclined to keep it open and with skier compaction throughout the whole season it would be a lot easier.
    I honestly don't think stability keeps the Baldy terrain closed, there were plenty of low avy hazard days I was there and the chutes had plenty of coverage but were closed. I suspect Alta wants to minimize the days of the year they have beaters tomahawking down main chute... but maybe someone in the know can confirm.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    This rationale doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Can't they just shoot it for control above the ballroom now? It's hard to imagine a business case for building a tram on the basis of control work. If the control work must be done with hand charges, you can spin the lifts in the dark and then send a couple sled dogs up with charges at early o'clock. You're paying for, what, 40 extra man hours per season compared to building, staffing, and maintaining a fucking tram? I don't know Alta well enough to think I'm guessing right at the amount of labor you're saving, but this sort of infrastructure is crazy expensive.
    If this is really about avy control work, work out some kind of agreement with Snowbird to use their tram for access. The proposed top station hardly gets you any closer to the summit than the Snowbird Baldy gate. Would be be shitloads cheaper than what I can only assume will be tens of millions for a new tram.

    What's the over/under for when Alta lift tickets go over $100? 2020?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    If this is really about avy control work, work out some kind of agreement with Snowbird to use their tram for access. The proposed top station hardly gets you any closer to the summit than the Snowbird Baldy gate. Would be be shitloads cheaper than what I can only assume will be tens of millions for a new tram.

    What's the over/under for when Alta lift tickets go over $100? 2020?
    Alta refers to the lift as a small tram, my guess is similar to Snowbasin's lift up to the DH courses. This is no way tens of millions, loading and unloading station + one other tower in between. I actually thought Main Chute was open quite a bit this year.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    If this is really about avy control work, work out some kind of agreement with Snowbird to use their tram for access. The proposed top station hardly gets you any closer to the summit than the Snowbird Baldy gate. Would be be shitloads cheaper than what I can only assume will be tens of millions for a new tram.

    What's the over/under for when Alta lift tickets go over $100? 2020?
    Ya I don't believe that it's mostly for control work either. It would sure help but it seems a little extreme to be for just that. That is probably the wording chosen to help it seem like it's more for safety than recreation but if a tram were to go in there I would think that's it's use was to indeed have a lift for skiers, maybe it's sort of a gimmick lift but it would get a lot of attention.

    It's also likely that it's main purpose being part of the proposal is to be a leverage tool in the final proposed action decision.

    The alignment sure seems weird to me. Why not have it's base initiate from below ballroom so you could do long laps on Baldy without having to ride two lifts?
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    It's also likely that it's main purpose being part of the proposal is to be a leverage tool in the final proposed action
    Ding-ding-ding! This is the MO when dealing with FS and Utah. Just Propose pie in the sky BS to draw all the attention and SOC scorn, Then they get less blowback for the more reasonable projects.
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    I couldn't give a fuck, but today I am procrastinating so TGR is my filler.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
    Alta refers to the lift as a small tram, my guess is similar to Snowbasin's lift up to the DH courses. This is no way tens of millions, loading and unloading station + one other tower in between.
    Even though it will be a relatively short tram, I just don't see how it gets built for much less than $10M. Add in 20+ years of O&M on top of that and the price tag gets big fast. I would be curious to know what the Mt. Allen tram cost, I looked but found nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat View Post
    Ding-ding-ding! This is the MO when dealing with FS and Utah. Just Propose pie in the sky BS to draw all the attention and SOC scorn, Then they get less blowback for the more reasonable projects.
    The thing is though, with the possible exception of the proposed Flora lift there's really nothing to get up in arms about.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJG View Post
    Snowbird is guilty of taking forever to open terrain, at least this year! They used to get stuff open RIGHT NOW, but this year it's been the Tortoise and Snail Crew. Milking storms to hold pow for the tourists pisses off a lot of the locals, IMO.
    As a local, I love milking storms and having pow for days instead of for just 4 hours and shit is done. The only reason that would suck is if you only get to schedule one day off for an upcoming storm.

    Otherwise everyone else wins, and people are safer. I don't trust SB patrol control work, so an extra day is completely reasonable, actually at any area with steep terrain it's a good idea to let shit settle. Obviously lots of variables so each storm is different....and I do love the SB patrol overall, don't get me wrong!

  20. #45
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    We were at AltaBird in March -- first day there patrol was bombing Baldy. My son was first down Main Chute after they opened it. Toursists win.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
    Alta refers to the lift as a small tram, my guess is similar to Snowbasin's lift up to the DH courses. This is no way tens of millions, loading and unloading station + one other tower in between. I actually thought Main Chute was open quite a bit this year.
    Id imagine this is dead on. 6 person beer can or whatever.

    Baldy was open quite a bit this season and first year in many wall to wall. East castle a couple times and devils a good hand full. I think asp actually kicked it up a notch this season. Just mho.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJG View Post
    Snowbird is guilty of taking forever to open terrain, at least this year! They used to get stuff open RIGHT NOW, but this year it's been the Tortoise and Snail Crew. Milking storms to hold pow for the tourists pisses off a lot of the locals, IMO.
    ummmm you realize that snowbird let their head patroller go last summer? yep, having experienced patrollers that understand the slide paths of an area is important to getting terrain open.


    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    I have seen both areas closed for weeks upon weeks when it could have been open imo. Whatever, Snowbird is right next door.

    "Alta holds terrain back" ya I'm sure if you live there it's not as big of a deal but for someone visiting for a weekend it's kind of like....WTF Alta? The same kind of terrain in Jackson gets opened up by 9 in the morning after a huge dump, what takes Alta so long?
    the alta snow preservation thing is pretty lame, but they mainly hold back openings during the week for the weekenders in my experience.



    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    Carl Fischer is a hoot and the reason why i changed my save our canyons sticker
    to STFU and ski our canyons
    dude there gonna take our pow

    you gotta fight fire with fire. the ski resorts go MINE MINE MINE, GIVE ME ALL THE LAND! the soc goes THERE'S GOING TO BE NO MORE POWDER! and they meet in the middle.
    but seriously, save our canyons kicks ass and is constantly working to preserve the wasatch mountains how they are. the work they've done and what they accomplished for the wasatch is why all of y'all moved here in the first place. They've got to ask for more every time they sit down at the negotiating table because look what they have to deal with..... Alta asking for a tram that would aesthetically hurt their own brand and that of snowbird.

  23. #48
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    I miss the days I could dirtbag a half-day Alta ticket for $17 and stick to supreme after 1:30; I Havn't paid for a ticket to ski there since.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hohes View Post
    I couldn't give a fuck, but today I am procrastinating so TGR is my filler.
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  24. #49
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    Since 1997.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat View Post
    How long have you been riding the bird? Not saying they aren't taking longer, but if you haven't been here since the last decent snow year a few season ago you might not have a good gauge.

  25. #50
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    Yep, I'll take your word for it than. I can understand why they don't open for 24 hours when they have exposure above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hohes View Post
    I couldn't give a fuck, but today I am procrastinating so TGR is my filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    faceshots are a powerful currency
    get paid

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