Thread: Avy Training Aid?

Would it make sence for companies like Tracker, Barryovox, etc. to offer a low cost "transmit only" devices for search training. Practicing your locating skills would be as easy as having someone, anyone hide the thing. No longer would you have to have your buddy there just to have a 2nd beacon.
Or is this just a JONG idea that would cause real problems during actual life and death situations by giving a false representation if mistakenly carried into the field?

Originally posted by smoothious
Would it make sence for companies like Tracker, Barryovox, etc. to offer a low cost "transmit only" devices for search training. Practicing your locating skills would be as easy as having someone, anyone hide the thing. No longer would you have to have your buddy there just to have a 2nd beacon.
Or is this just a JONG idea that would cause real problems during actual life and death situations by giving a false representation if mistakenly carried into the field?

Euh... the whole point of a simulated search is to actually search for something... You planning of hidding that thing yourself and then spin in place ten time then go look for it pretending you don't know where it is ?

I would have to say JONG.

The neighbor, your mother , the kids, anyone could do the hiding although spinning in place might work for me and possibly others. The point is that you could practice searching on your own with a $50-$100 device rather than shell out $300 for a second beacon. I dont have anyone that lives within 25 miles of me to practice searching with so practice is limited to when it works into 2 schedule for at least 2 people. Unless there are some real dangers in the field I think there could be some use for this!

This thought had crossed my mind last season repeatedly.

I could build one if I put the time into it... pretty simple if i knew the specs... however getting the exact specs on what the transmit frequency and the acceptable range and the power output is... that I was unable to find despite repeated emails to manufacturers, avvy schools, and caic

It's 457MHz is not exact enough. What are the tolerances? Is the transmission just a ~457mhz modulated pulse or is there some other manipulation of radio waves? etc etc etc

Find this out and we can have a design up in a week or less and probably build yourself for $15-$30

ARVA does make a transmitter - the BIP http://www.cybermegahub.com/rescuetransmitterbelt.htm
Problem is it's $100, about the price of a used F1 Focus. I've heard the Euro market has some other transmitters as well.

Ortovox has a new doggy-transmitter, that might do the trick. I think a big problem is the fact that people would start using the transmit-only beacon in the bc..

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
This thought had crossed my mind last season repeatedly.

I could build one if I put the time into it... pretty simple if i knew the specs... however getting the exact specs on what the transmit frequency and the acceptable range and the power output is... that I was unable to find despite repeated emails to manufacturers, avvy schools, and caic

It's 457MHz is not exact enough. What are the tolerances? Is the transmission just a ~457mhz modulated pulse or is there some other manipulation of radio waves? etc etc etc

Find this out and we can have a design up in a week or less and probably build yourself for $15-$30

Does this help?
*** Avalanche Beacon Specifications ***

From: Brian Stachniak <bst@msmri.medicine.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: how to make an avalanche beacon
Date: December 22, 1999 16:10

I am intrigued with this idea so I did a bit of research which I will share
with any techno-guys out there.

Some starting specs. (based on the European standard, EN 282:1991 which is
based on the standard DIN 32 924). The important technical specifications
are as follows:

transmit frequency: 457 +/- 0.1 kHz
transmit field strength: between 0.5 and 2.16 mA/m at 1 m
receiver sensitivity: 80 nA/m for 6 dB (S+N)/N at speaker/earphone
output
modulation: A1A (carrier on/off)
turn-on time: >70 ms
turn-off time: >200 ms
period: 0.9 +/- 0.4 s
operating temperature: -20 to 40 C
storage temperature: -30 to 50 C
operating time: 200 hours transmit at 10C followed by
1 hour receive at -10C

Originally posted by smoothious
Does this help?
*** Avalanche Beacon Specifications ***

From: Brian Stachniak <bst@msmri.medicine.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: how to make an avalanche beacon
Date: December 22, 1999 16:10

I am intrigued with this idea so I did a bit of research which I will share
with any techno-guys out there.

Some starting specs. (based on the European standard, EN 282:1991 which is
based on the standard DIN 32 924). The important technical specifications
are as follows:

transmit frequency: 457 +/- 0.1 kHz
transmit field strength: between 0.5 and 2.16 mA/m at 1 m
receiver sensitivity: 80 nA/m for 6 dB (S+N)/N at speaker/earphone
output
modulation: A1A (carrier on/off)
turn-on time: >70 ms
turn-off time: >200 ms
period: 0.9 +/- 0.4 s
operating temperature: -20 to 40 C
storage temperature: -30 to 50 C
operating time: 200 hours transmit at 10C followed by
1 hour receive at -10C

How did you find the standard stats stuff so easy? Cool... that might be all that I need... lemme look into it and I'll post back in a few days. It would be awesome to get some schematics and instructions up.

Originally posted by AH
Ortovox has a new doggy-transmitter, that might do the trick. I think a big problem is the fact that people would start using the transmit-only beacon in the bc..

Yea that is a dangerous possibility. A lot of people are too stupid to realize that having a transmit only beacon is just deadweight that will make it easier for SAR types to find the corpsicle. Hell... most of em don't reazlie that even a $360 fancy one is just a fancy corpse locator if their partner isnt carrying a transponder too. It becomes just an expensive fancy corpse locator.

Any schematics for the transmit only device are going to have a hugeass "FOR TRAINING PURPOSES ONLY! NOT A LIFE SAVING DEVICE!" disclaimer.

Many ski resorts with open backcountry gates will set up practice fields for ya.

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
Any schematics for the transmit only device are going to have a hugeass "FOR TRAINING PURPOSES ONLY! NOT A LIFE SAVING DEVICE!" disclaimer. [/B]

Transmit only devices have existed in Euro-land for offpiste guided skiing, particularly in predigital times. A transmit only beacon is going to up the ante of you being found alive - but your partners are f'ed. It's a major 8=D thing to do.

Someone mentioned the Ortovox "dog" transmitter - this is probably the "ski-maus" renamed. the "ski mouse" was a small transmitter you mounted on your skis that transmitted on a different frequency, with much less range. Good for training, but not as good as a real beacon.

Smoothius... I tried to email that UBC addy... rejected... what gives?

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
Smoothius... I tried to email that UBC addy... rejected... what gives?

I dont know what up but here is the link for what I found. http://www.sarinfo.bc.ca/Library/Tec...echnology.html

I found this by doing a google search for Avalanche Beacon Specifications. I hope the $15-$30 thing becomes a reality

Thats a cool link... I'm gonna have fun with that.

If you all are really interested, I will put in some work on coming up with some schematics. If I am to guess, I'd guess it'll be closer to $30 but whatever.

Unless there is some big problem expensive piece like a crystal... we'll see

did we already have a conversation about the possibility of beacons throwin out a serious car-alarm like siren to go along with the radio signal? I know the snow density would restrict noise/sound quite a bit but it would seem another safety net for possible searchers showin up or whatever without beacons... technology has gotten louder and if it saved just one life... possibly cost and weight and maybe liability prevent this... multiple burials blaring might get people diggin sooner and that would seem a good thing... /just thinkin out loud hijack/

Are you guys looking to do this thing? These sell for about EUR 90 (the price of a used F1) so if you can make an emitter for $30 that'd be nice.

drC

Here's a transmit only beacon for $60
http://www.alssports.com/item.asp?prodID=6876

Originally posted by cj001f
Here's a transmit only beacon for $60
http://www.alssports.com/item.asp?prodID=6876

I want one of those, Thanks for the help cj.

What do you think Summit, Best to buy the $60 factory model?

Smoothius... yah... for $60 why not. Even if mine ends up costing $20, it will be bulky and not druable. That $60 one you can actually use in the BC for your dog or ski or some person who deosn't know how to use a beacon.

I'm workin two jobs now so I dunno when I'll get a design up. If you all are still interested I'll keep working on it.

Oh ya... and it is SNOWING!

edited to add: did it say anywhere on that page about the $60 transmitter that it was infact a 457 and nto a 2.256?