Thread: Subaru Brake Dilemma

So I have the first H6 3.0L Outback (2001) and while I know Subaru brakes sort of suck in general, on my car they are particularly underpowered. This lack of stopping power I take it is from a weight of car to size of brake/caliper/rotor issue or so I have been told.

Since my car is heavier than all other Subarus from 2001 but they all used the same brake my car is at the shittiest end of the braking stick as it were. This has lead to warped rotors that are so bad the car feels like it is rattling to pieces...twice now in a year and a half.

Sure maybe my wife doesn't have the most sensitive braking foot on her, but come on!

My Suby guy wants me to do an after market brake upgrade. He can do the whole thing for $1000-1200 parts and labor.

Has anyone here had much experience with putting better brakes on their Subys or on their cars in general and what are the pros and cons?

A friend of mine put some high powered brakes on his WRX and now he can't leave beers in the back seat on the way home from the store or they go flying when he stops....

My wife is this close to trading this thing in for a Civic or something more fuel friendly. I need the Mags help convincing her we should shell out for new brakes instead.

Try some crossdrilled and slotted rotors on it. That should stop the warping but it won't make the brakes any more powerful.

It would definitely be cheaper especially if you do it yourself.

the good news is you can upgrade your shitty braking situation with all OEM parts. Talk to your dealership about hte suby 4pot calipers and rotors. These are what come on the 06-07 WRX. They use stock size rotor but a 4 piston instead of shitty floating 2 piston caliper. For all the OEM parts it should run you about 800. You can still run your stock wheels and will have much increased stopping power. If I were in your shoes I would get the OEM calipers and all hardware to make them work, run the stock pads, and get a nice set of aftermarket rotors. They are much thicker and dissapate heat better. Look at powerslot or racingbrake. The aftermarket alternatives should not cost much more if any than OEM, and will greatly reduce the chance or pad deposits that you are getting now. These are a direct bolt on for your car, no crazy parts or fabbing necessary. A great upgrade and pretty much the only place I would look. Another option is to go to www.oakos.com and check out the racingbrake 4piston caliper upgrade. I have them and they fucking rule. I can run my 16" wheels in the winter, and they have amazing pedal feel and modulating power. THey haul down in a hurrry.
Gooood luck, go with the OEM 4pots, they are sexy. check out subarugenuineparts.com for some of the best package deals, don't be afraid to call them and let them know what you are trying to do. Jamie is really knowledgeable and can guide you through what you will need. Labor should not take more than two hours.
Hunter

Good after market brakes and rotors are dime a dozen. Just go to tirerack.com, and have a local shop install them, no need to pay OEM, and stealership prices. Go with slotted rotors, and avoid drilled, they warp to easily. Just changing pads to an ungraded type can make a big difference, but it maybe too late since you already warped the rotors.

FYI never park your car with the e-brake on after a lot of hard braking, i.e. after a long mountain descent, it is a sure way to warp your rotors.

Originally Posted by hutash

Good after market brakes and rotors are dime a dozen. Just go to tirerack.com, and have a local shop install them, no need to pay OEM, and stealership prices. Go with slotted rotors, and avoid drilled, they warp to easily. Just changing pads to an ungraded type can make a big difference, but it maybe too late since you already warped the rotors.

FYI never park your car with the e-brake on after a lot of hard braking, i.e. after a long mountain descent, it is a sure way to warp your rotors.

Yeah I'm definitely not doing anything through any dealership. I don't know whether my mechanic is going to recomend the 4 piston OEM brake or something purely aftermarket.

I'm definitely toying with the idea of doing the whole thing by myself.
Do these things come with good enough instructions for a car jong and his slightly less than car jong buddy to do it ourselves?

Originally Posted by 300hp

the good news is you can upgrade your shitty braking situation with all OEM parts. Talk to your dealership about hte suby 4pot calipers and rotors. These are what come on the 06-07 WRX. They use stock size rotor but a 4 piston instead of shitty floating 2 piston caliper. For all the OEM parts it should run you about 800. You can still run your stock wheels and will have much increased stopping power. If I were in your shoes I would get the OEM calipers and all hardware to make them work, run the stock pads, and get a nice set of aftermarket rotors. They are much thicker and dissapate heat better. Look at powerslot or racingbrake. The aftermarket alternatives should not cost much more if any than OEM, and will greatly reduce the chance or pad deposits that you are getting now. These are a direct bolt on for your car, no crazy parts or fabbing necessary. A great upgrade and pretty much the only place I would look. Another option is to go to www.oakos.com and check out the racingbrake 4piston caliper upgrade. I have them and they fucking rule. I can run my 16" wheels in the winter, and they have amazing pedal feel and modulating power. THey haul down in a hurrry.
Gooood luck, go with the OEM 4pots, they are sexy. check out subarugenuineparts.com for some of the best package deals, don't be afraid to call them and let them know what you are trying to do. Jamie is really knowledgeable and can guide you through what you will need. Labor should not take more than two hours.
Hunter

The 4pots say they only fit on Imprezas, and I don't see an Outback version. How different are the bolt on setups between the two or are they similar?

4 pots will fit! However your stock wheels may not fit the new calipers. You can still use the stock rotors with these. And Jamie does have the best pricing on new kits!

Brembo is the shit for new brakes, but I don't know anything about Subarus. My 4runner is suffering from slightly warped rotors as well and I plan on putting on some Brembo rotors sometime soon (no slots or holes needed for my slow truck, just regular ventet rotors).

Go here for the best info on a brake upgrade. You might even find a used set up. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/

Originally Posted by Lacy Underalls

4 pots will fit! However your stock wheels may not fit the new calipers. You can still use the stock rotors with these. And Jamie does have the best pricing on new kits!

That's the easy part, my Outback has the 16" wheels so I'm set. I'll email her and see what the 4pots will set me back. Then I'll get some beefier pads too.

contray to popular belief in tuner/ricer circles slotted/ drilled rotors will crack and warp easier than a solid blank rotor. the only reason companies use it, is because of the preceived 'cool' factor, and in very few cases like a sport bike the rotor is so large for the amount of stopping that need to be done it makes the rotors lighter.

If I was you I would go with the largest heaviest(heavy the rotor the more heat it can absorb) blank rotor you can fit under the smallest wheel you will be using. and use a high rated sport style brake pad like cobalt friction and some ATE super Blue brake fluid.

Another important step most people miss is proper bedding in off brakes, if you bed in brakes properly you will stretch out the rotors to their maximum point already(kinda of like prestreaching a bike cable).

bedding in brakes goes like this.

after installing everything new go to a open straight streach of road and go about 65mph hit the brakes moderately hard till you hit 30mph let off at 30mph accelerate repeat bringing the the brake pedal pressure up harder each time. let it rest for 5min while driving then do more 10 more stops from 65mph to nearly stop as had as you can. You will smell brake dust this is ok. after the last ten near stops drive the car for another 10 mins be sure not to stop to cool the rotors down.

What you have just done is yield the brake rotor material to it maximum amount. But you did it in way that the brake rotor is still uniform thickness all the way around. "warped" rotors is caused by uneven yielding of the rotor materail..ie riding the brakes down the hill.

the last step is in this whole process is proper braking technique.

short powerful almost jarring burst of braking are way better for the brake rotors than 'riding" the brakes down the hill.

I've run DBA 4000 series rotors and a variety of upgraded pads on the 2 subarus I've had with great success. You should consider the subaru 4pot equipment and I'd reccomend some non-stock rotors.

Sometimes the "warping" is pad material deposition. I've had that issue before.

Where are you? This job is super easy and I'm sure you could find someone willing to lend a hand.

Wondering if you should do calipers at the same time. My GF has a '00 Grand Cherokee and they are notorious for going through rotors every 20k miles. As it turns out, the flaw is in the design of the caliper. When an updated OEM or after market caliper is installed, the rotors have a much longer life.

Not sure if it is applicable to the Subaru, but could be worth checking out.

Ok so it turns out that my 16" wheels aren't dished out enough inside to fit the 4pots.

My mechanic wants to do DBA rotors slotted (diffuses heat faster is his experience with Subaru and BMW race) with a high end aftermarket pad and steel braided lines.

He still thinks that by the time the pads are done the rotors will have to go too though. What a bitch that Subaru put a 2 piston caliper on the H6. I almost want to write them a letter.

He's gonna get me the rotors pads and lines and put them on for $500. If it were just rotors and pads I'd do it myself but I've never dealt with bleeding brake fluid on car brake lines. Is it the same/similar to a Shimano XT hydro?

Am I being sensible or lazy letting him/paying him to do it? And is that a good deal after getting the rotors from DBA (Australia) the pads from hawk or somewhere decent, and the steel lines plus the labor? And what should the labor be, 2 hours or so?

Thanks mags, you guys always come through.

Originally Posted by skimasterflex

Ok so it turns out that my 16" wheels aren't dished out enough inside to fit the 4pots.

My mechanic wants to do DBA rotors slotted (diffuses heat faster is his experience with Subaru and BMW race) with a high end aftermarket pad and steel braided lines.

He still thinks that by the time the pads are done the rotors will have to go too though. What a bitch that Subaru put a 2 piston caliper on the H6. I almost want to write them a letter.

He's gonna get me the rotors pads and lines and put them on for $500. If it were just rotors and pads I'd do it myself but I've never dealt with bleeding brake fluid on car brake lines. Is it the same/similar to a Shimano XT hydro?

Am I being sensible or lazy letting him/paying him to do it? And is that a good deal after getting the rotors from DBA (Australia) the pads from hawk or somewhere decent, and the steel lines plus the labor? And what should the labor be, 2 hours or so?

Thanks mags, you guys always come through.

I agree with everything here besides the slotted rotors, hawk makes some good brake pads and stainless lines wont reduce you brake warping problem but will make the "feel" way better.

Just go with original pads. So called "high performance" pads are really hard, so just like your mech is telling you, the rotors will wear out just as fast as the pads. Bleeding brakes isn't that hard. I haven't done it myself, but I bled my clutch no problem.

Originally Posted by skimasterflex

So I have the first H6 3.0L Outback (2001) and while I know Subaru brakes sort of suck in general, on my car they are particularly underpowered. This lack of stopping power I take it is from a weight of car to size of brake/caliper/rotor issue or so I have been told.

Since my car is heavier than all other Subarus from 2001 but they all used the same brake my car is at the shittiest end of the braking stick as it were. This has lead to warped rotors that are so bad the car feels like it is rattling to pieces...twice now in a year and a half.

Sure maybe my wife doesn't have the most sensitive braking foot on her, but come on!

My Suby guy wants me to do an after market brake upgrade. He can do the whole thing for $1000-1200 parts and labor.

Has anyone here had much experience with putting better brakes on their Subys or on their cars in general and what are the pros and cons?

YES, and looks like everyone wants to spend all your money.

I have the SAME car. With the SAME braking shaking (or did).

Answer: Midas. Got rotors turned (need new ones next time). Add Lifetime Warranty on Midas Brake Pads. Have them checked every 4-6 months for wear. If you go beyond a certain point, they won't replace them free (labor included). My 01 H6 wagon had this done 3 years ago. No rattling since then.

Spent less than half what you are proposing.


edit: put on 50K miles since this last fixup. No problems.

screw it, i'd go for the Civic. Actually more like the Jetta TDI. With oil at $80/barrel, prices just might not go down right away

the dba 4000 series rotors dissapate heat very well and kick ass. I would get them for sure, or the club rotors below it. they make a great product. and a hawk HPS pad is a nice street pad with extra grip. low dust and no noise on my car. check em out.
Hunter

Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

YES, and looks like everyone wants to spend all your money.

I have the SAME car. With the SAME braking shaking (or did).

Answer: Midas. Got rotors turned (need new ones next time). Add Lifetime Warranty on Midas Brake Pads. Have them checked every 4-6 months for wear. If you go beyond a certain point, they won't replace them free (labor included). My 01 H6 wagon had this done 3 years ago. No rattling since then.

Spent less than half what you are proposing.


edit: put on 50K miles since this last fixup. No problems.

Got my ish turned last fall, started to rattle again 6 weeks later and has been getting worse ever since.

I'm not getting better brake pads so they'll last longer. I'm getting them so my car will stop better.

Maybe yours doesn't shake any more but it still doesn't stop fast enough for me

Originally Posted by skimasterflex

Maybe yours doesn't shake any more but it still doesn't stop fast enough for me

Gotcha. I simply don't have that problem. The car is heavier, but I can stop just fine. Fine enough for all my crap in the car to slam the backs of the seats and more if I need to jam on them.

Good luck.

The reason for slotted/drilled/vented rotors is to reduce weight and increase airflow around the rotors to dissipate heat. Like nearly everything in life this is a trade off. The lighter the rotor the more likely it is to warp. The reason you want a light rotor is the same reason you want light wheels. The unsprung weight of a car has a larger effect on performance (accelerating and decelerating) then sprung weight. You want rotors to cool fast so that they do not over heat your pads. Which pads to choice is another set of compromises. The harder, more heat resistant the pad, the better it is for aggressive braking when the rotors are really heated up. They can take the heat with out boiling away into space (less brake fade). The down side is the suck at stopping the car when the pads and rotors are cold. (In other words beware of the stop sign at the end of your block first thing in the mourning.)

As for not using the e-brake after heavy braking....The rotors are extremely hot after hard braking, and if you clamp the brake pads down on them the rest of the rotor will cool faster and potentially warp the rotor. Probably not a factor with day to day driving, but if you are really pushing it in mountain driving, or on the track it is best to not clamp anything to your rotors. It is standard practice at the track to block your wheels after finishing a track session.