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Thread: Fackin' Motos....
05-27-2007, 11:53 AM #1
So, here in the Big Hole's, (Idaho), where there a few hundred miles of good Moto-friendly trails, we have a small issue.
Me and a group of friends have built ~25 miles of tight, flowy singletrack. We designed it specifically for MTB's, with bridges, really tight turns, etc. The FS has unofficially adopted the network, and put up two 'Non Motorized' signs, but there are a dozen trailheads/intersections, and the local moto crowd have been ignoring the 'closure'.
Does anyone have any good examples of educating moto users to the fact that A, these trails are considered non-moto, and B., there are still hundreds of miles of Moto trails right in the area?
Of course there are some in the group that want to get militant and confrontational, but I know that will simply backfire.
We are working with the local FS for more signage, but these aren't 'system trails' yet, so they are a bit reluctant.
Any good advice?
(PS, I owned a KTM 450 for a few years, this isn't a moto-hate issue, it is the fact that I am spending hours upon hours cleaning up Moto damage, when I could be building new trail!)
05-27-2007, 12:26 PM #2
Sounds like the first thing you need is better signage -- at *all* the intersections. People might know that a trail is closed to them, but if it's not signed, they'll often ride it anyway because they have plausible deniability if they get caught. "Oh, I didn't know that was bikes only, there wasn't a sign..."
If that isn't enough, then you can start with the log barricades and whatever.
05-27-2007, 12:31 PM #3
That really is the question, should we make our own signs?
I am meeting with the FS tuesday, but it is Mem. Weekend, and the damage that has been sustained just from today and yesterday will take a LOT of time to fix.
We can't really barricade much, the terrain is open enough, a motivated rider would just go around.
I think it has to be a combination of education, cooperation, and (hopefully) some enforcement.
05-27-2007, 09:11 PM #4
Put in bridges that in no way shape or form support a motorcyle and rider.
Cross steep stream beds to do this. Seriously.
I feel for you man. Just had a 'conversation' with some dipshit trying to explain to me that he rides 'smoothly'. Our soil is similar to yours. Once the moisture is gone, it's over.STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.
05-27-2007, 09:32 PM #5
Make sure your signs are visible and clear and maybe put up fences or some such thing at entry points that would be easy to lift your bike over but you can't just ride over or wouldn't support a moto. Yeah, you could still get a few assholes determined to go around, but it would make it more obvious.
And why not put a sign explaining it with your non-motorized signs? "This trail is for mountain bikes only. Motorized travel will damage the features. There are hundreds of miles of trails open to motorized travel. Please respect that this trail was built specifically for mountain bikes."
Yeah, it's a lot to read, but in combination, it might help deter those who somehow figure they're not hurting anything. The fence/entry would deter those too stupid to read, etc.
I ride motos too, but not on closed trails. Lame."Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow, what a Ride!"
05-27-2007, 10:08 PM #6
I'll bet the FS will balk at letting you put up your own signs, which I think would be the best option. FS will have to open up the dialog over use restrictions as part of a planning process, regardless of who built the trail. They can only restrict motorized use if the trails become "official" trails. I could be wrong but think that's likely the case.
Probably the best you can hope for is an informal method of communicating with the motorized users. Maybe go to some local shops and plead your case as well as sit at the trail head for a few weekends and explain your case to the motos. It wouldn't be my idea of fun, but I'm not sure what else might work.
05-27-2007, 11:32 PM #7
It has been a real bummer these past two weeks to see the trails get trashed by motos who don't know how to ride. More signage! I love the new booters. Sweet pink bike! Thank you for your time and efforts. More signs, article in the paper, reach out to the IF/Rexburg moto organizations. Lots of 8B plates out there this weekend."Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway
05-28-2007, 12:07 AM #8
Glad you like the pink bike, MS!
That was a bit o' inspiration...so, remember when i was trying to get you to ride the new trail, and you fully bailed?
I guess I won't tell you about the new 1 mile of trail I am working on in that area, top secret....
Anyhoo, every single memorial day we get the hoards of B plates, they come and go. It is like clockwork.
Hey, do me a favor, if you would...EVERY time you ride shark's belly, would you be so kind as to help 'pinch' the trail with logs, rocks, whatever, wherever you see loam blowouts? It is getting rediculous, but I think if EVERY Mt. Biker cared, and got off of their bikes to help throw down log/branch pinches all over the trails, it would help a ton. I have spent more time repairing trail than either riding OR building new this year, and as you know, that is not helping all of us in the best way.
PLEASE help me throw down a bunch of junk in appropriate places...please?
Pretty, pretty please?
(JK about the new trail, when you see me, I will update you...but you gotta help me get the local bikers to 'take over' the HS loops...we have to work together! I can't be 'that guy' all the time!!!)
Last edited by rideit; 05-28-2007 at 12:29 AM.
05-28-2007, 12:25 AM #9
Altagirl, I am leaning towards your wording on a leaflet/sign. We have been through this before, with varied results (I have been tinkering with trails all over the country/world for twenty years, this is NOT my first rodeo).
I am looking for case studies of similar situations, and how they were (or weren't) settled without 'official' enforcement...in other words, how to make it work so that both parties stay happy respecting each-other's positions. The problem is kinda that we Mt. Bikers have built some of the best trails in the entire region, and the Moto's have figured that out, and want to use them, regardless of their provenance.
However, we really do have hundreds of miles of great trail open for everyone, literally right there. The Moto users are not being denied a trail that they used before, we built it all from scratch.
There is a very liberatarian mentality locally, so no one wants to be told where they can't go.
(Just like we don't like to be told that we can't build our trails...which we have done as pirates, admittedly).
Tricky situation, but this is part of the gamble we (pirates) took spending roughly 4000 volunteer man-hours (total bullshit ball park figure, probably more, actually) so far on our network.
Hopefully sweat equity ends up having some recognizable value at the end of the day.
Last edited by rideit; 05-28-2007 at 12:56 AM.
05-28-2007, 08:23 AM #10
You do know that the irony is that most of the public lands trails out there were originally built by hunters, horse riders, and hikers who have been frustrated as new user groups (e.g., mountain bikers) invaded "their" trails. I have had some from the equestrian crowd tell me just that as me and my mountain bike felt awfully vulnerable next to them and their tall horses and rifles.
Good luck! I am impressed that you actually want to find a way to communicate and develop a solution that doesn't require official restrictions or trail traps for certain uses. You deserve bigger kudos for that than your trail building efforts. We could all use more of that perspective.
05-28-2007, 12:43 PM #11
CD, I know that is true...but there is a new generation coming up that has thrown that out the window.
Good examples are BC/Whistler/Shore, Fruita, Moab (ALL of the singletrack), Sedona, Tsali, Kingdom Trails (VT), Laguna Rads trails, Teton Pass, Big Hole's (horseshoe) and many, many others...systems that are now considered true gems in the eyes of public trail officials. The tide has turned, and the millions of hours of volunteer labor, whether legal or not, is what has pushed back the water.
Mt. Bikers are getting older, becoming wealthy, and are getting organized, and it is beginning to show. Remember Marin! (say it with the conviction of 'Remember the Alamo!) Never Again!!
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