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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up 188 Stiff Bro Review #143235

    The Ski:
    PM Gear Bro Model
    188 Stiff Flex --> 126-100-115; 40m radius
    Mounted with Salomon 977 11-17 (thanks Flexon Phil)

    The Skier:
    6'2, 185ish with gear
    High 8, racer
    Nordica Dobie 150 boots, unsoftened
    Skis liked: Atomic and Nordica race skis

    Conditions:
    Thigh-deep powder, crud, soft groomers, hardpack, occasional bumps


    I got these from Pat a couple of months ago, and was able to use them on my recent trip to Colorado. (They have a very slight blem, the topsheet graphic is a little offset on one of them) I skied them for 2 days at Breckenridge and one at A-Basin. It was mid-winter conditions.

    Upon an initial impression, the skis are VERY light, especially for something so big. This makes sense, as there is no metal in the skis. Even after I mounted them with 977s, which are all metal and probably weigh more than the skis, they weighed less than my 165 SLRs. I found the flex to be pretty comparable to Heluvaskier's Stockli DPs, perhaps a tiny bit softer, pretty much pursuant to Marshal's chart. The flex pattern was different, though, as I will discuss later. We did a little bit of hiking, and the lack of metal in the ski was very much appreciated at that point.

    I skied these for the first time at Breckenridge. We took some warm-up groomer runs while waiting for the upper mountain to open, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were very useable on groomers. I had been somewhat apprehensive about the 40m radius, but with gratuitous tip pressure they came right around in SG turns. It took a while to get used to having to drive so hard, as I am used to slalom skis. Shortly after, we got on Chair 6 soon after it opened, and were rewarded by several runs of deep, untracked powder. It is worth noting that this was my first time in deep powder outside of Jay Peak trees, so I was figuring things out as I went along. Once I figured out the balance point, the skis were great. You can make short turns or long in the powder, they are pretty easy either way. I fell due to getting too far forward during my first run, but that only happened once. As long as you stay centered, the skis are great in powder.

    We had more runs of powder off of the Imperial lift and on Peak 7, but it soon turned to mostly crud. The Bros are designed to bust through crud, rather than skim over it, and they accomplished this purpose well. The pilot needed to get used to that type of snow, but as I got more comfortable the skis were great. There is ZERO tip deflection, even when the crud gets very heavy and irregular. My technique was somewhat lacking, but the skis allowed me to maintain decent speeds everywhere. If I wanted to pivot them, the up-turned tail made it very easy to release. They really don't feel like 188cm skis in tight spots due to this.

    As the trip went on, I used the Bros in the full spectrum of conditions. I inadvertently tested their durability while looking for powder on the runout to the T-Bar at Breck. It was untracked for a reason.....there were rocks everywhere. I probably hit 4 or 5 rocks on that run alone. Bros are famed for their durability, and mine reflected this. The edges were case-hardened in spots, but no real damage resulted. There were several scuffs on the bases, but nothing I would really even call a scratch. I was very impressed by this characteristic, especially after heluvaskier damaged his DPs so badly.

    I gave them a real hardpack/groomer test at A-basin on Friday, as I was finally getting comfortable on the skis. I found that my favorite characteristic about them is their stability at speed. They are perfectly happy to straightline anywhere, on a groomer or in a field of crud. They can be skied arc-to-arc on groomers, as long as you have a lot of space and use some tip pressure. It was really fun to be able to make it down entire trails at A-Basin in 3 or 4 turns, and the skis were very calm at what I would estimate as ~50mph. There was zero chatter, and I don't think I really came close to their speed limit either. People always talk about edge-to-edge quickness with regard to fat skis. Althoug I won't say that they are as quick as my slaloms, I could easily accomplish a cross-through arc-to-arc transition without issue.

    This stability really inspires confidence all over the mountain, as I found myself standing 150-200ft up the heavily crudded up Slalom run off of Pali asking myself, "Hmm, I wonder if I can just straightline this to the flat to save energy." I gave it a shot and the skis just powered right through the mank.

    It was interesting to compare characteristics of the DPs and the Bros, since Greg and I ski somewhat alike. The running length on the two skis was almost the same, even though the Bros are 188s and the DPs are 184s. The flex "hinge" point on the Bro tips was about 8-10 inches back from the tip, whereas that of the DPs was more like 4-6 inches back. As a result, the DPs were more geared to skimming over crud, whereas the Bros would just slam right through it.

    The Bros like speed in any condition. If you make GS turns in crud, they will easily accelerate if you let them, as they are rather stiff. They are also very comfortable making short turns in crud as well though, surprisingly. They simply don't work under 25 mph on groomers either, they are too straight and stiff. That was just fine with me...

    If you are an accomplished skier looking to go fast through variable conditions and powder, I would consider the Bros. I would not recommend these to people who are not used to stiff skis and are not comfortable with very high speeds and huge turns on groomers. It is basically a fat SG ski. I could easily use them every day if I had the space to ski fast.

    Thanks Pat


    Not much difference in length:


    Durable bases



    Pow/crud at Breck and crud bumps at A-Basin:


  2. #2
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    hey cool review!

    one thing I should mention though, is that the 188 bro is no where near 40m radius. its closer to 34.

    also I dont quite understand this point
    The flex "hinge" point on the Bro tips was about 8-10 inches back from the tip, whereas that of the DPs was more like 4-6 inches back. As a result, the DPs were more geared to skimming over crud, whereas the Bros would just slam right through it.
    if the hinge point on the bro is farther back, wouldnt that seem to make sense that more of the tip would be rising up over the crud and make it more of the "skimming over" type ski, where as if you move the hinge point forward towards the tip, you have less available tip to skim up over stuff and would then bust through crud? (or did you just get these backwards)

    also, with a hinge point that far back, realitively, how can you have "ZERO" tip deflection?

    how much camber did you pair have?

  3. #3
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    Maybe I missed it, but was wondering where you mounted your Salomon bindings - I would guess a more traditional mount or at their suggested mount line?? Anyway, I would like to know. Sounds like a great all around stick for western resort skiing & a pretty darn durable boards as well. Hmmm, maybe I should steer toward them instead of the 08 Gotama 190.
    "If you are prepared for zombies, you are prepared for anything"

    De Oppresso Liber

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    hey cool review!

    one thing I should mention though, is that the 188 bro is no where near 40m radius. its closer to 34.
    I used this sidecut radius calculator, and it agrees. Interesting...

    also I dont quite understand this point


    if the hinge point on the bro is farther back, wouldnt that seem to make sense that more of the tip would be rising up over the crud and make it more of the "skimming over" type ski, where as if you move the hinge point forward towards the tip, you have less available tip to skim up over stuff and would then bust through crud? (or did you just get these backwards)

    also, with a hinge point that far back, realitively, how can you have "ZERO" tip deflection?

    how much camber did you pair have?
    I see it as taking more force to get my tips to flex up than his, therefore they bust through more easily. I didn't ski the DPs and he didn't ski the Bros, so the comparison is largely worthless. (Our BSLs are too far apart)

    Perhaps it wasn't zero deflection, but I've never had anything that was this stable in crud or elsewhere before, so by comparison to what I've skied there is zero deflection.

    They have very little camber. Not none, but very little.

    Altabird- I mounted at the line. All searched threads indicated that that was the sweet spot, and I haven't really heard of anyone deviating from it.

  5. #5
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    ah
    cool
    i was assuming similar flexes with regard to the hinge point
    thanks for clarifying that!

    regarding the radii
    im familiar with Physic Man's calculator, however, I get my numbers directly from the CAD files.

  6. #6
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    May 2002
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    pechelman, would you send me a list of the radii and dimensions for all the skis?
    Iit's been getting difficult for me to spout them off the top of my head.
    I think I've hit terminal burnout.

    DoubleD - you got supa stiffs, as I recall. the positioning of what I call the power strip is the greatest influence on that hinge point you mentioned. it's a diamond shaped piece of glass that goes on the core, covering the mount area wall to wall, then tapers out to a point on both ends. it's a multi-purpose doodad that does a few other things, too.

    we have to talk about that, pechelman.

  7. #7
    Squatch Guest
    i used that radius calc. and got 34.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    DoubleD - you got supa stiffs, as I recall. the positioning of what I call the power strip is the greatest influence on that hinge point you mentioned. it's a diamond shaped piece of glass that goes on the core, covering the mount area wall to wall, then tapers out to a point on both ends. it's a multi-purpose doodad that does a few other things, too.
    You originally said you had both superstiff and stiff blems available, then I bought the stiffs. Unless you sent me the wrong pair, I'm pretty sure I have stiffs. (Thanks again!)

  9. #9
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    if you really want to know what they are, weigh them.
    I just got home, but there's a scale at the shop and I can give you weight ranges for both tomorrow.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    pechelman, would you send me a list of the radii and dimensions for all the skis?
    Iit's been getting difficult for me to spout them off the top of my head.
    I think I've hit terminal burnout.

    we have to talk about that, pechelman.
    ha
    completely understandable as you know have 6 distinctly different skis
    expect a handy dandy excel spreadsheet tomorrow sometime (probably around lunch)

    interested to hear what you got goin on with that black diamond.
    shoot me an email or call or something

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    if you really want to know what they are, weigh them.
    I just got home, but there's a scale at the shop and I can give you weight ranges for both tomorrow.
    If you have them handy, go for it, but the bindings will pretty much make that useless unless someone happens to know what 11-17 977s weigh...

    I would think they would be substantially stiffer than the DPs if they were superstiffs, and they weren't, at least from a hand flex perspective.

  12. #12
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    I didn't think that those DP's were all that stiff either.

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