Thread: Wheel build

I desperately need a new wheel for the trail bike. One can only squeeze so many Porcupine rides out of a Ditch Witch. I fear that this thing will explode any day now.

I've got a 721 in pretty good shape, and a Hayes/Hugi rear hub. My budget is limited, so I need to try and do this on the cheap.

First, how hard would this be to do myself with merely a spoke wrench and a truing stand? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to that question, but I'm hopeful that some MacGruber type will chime in with some homemade wheel building scheme.

Also, what spokes should I be considering and where can I get 'em for cheap?

You can do it, if you are mechanically inclined, and methodical.
Use DT spokes, and bum some spoke-prep from a shop bro.

Don't over-tension, that is beginner's most common mistake.

google sheldon brown and Jobst Brandt.
I might have the spokes you need for cheap, go to DT's website, and go to the spoke length calculator, find out what lengths that you need.

it's reallt not that bad. if you want to keep the same hub as on your ditch witch, and the 721 is the same # holes (32/36) and close to same spoke length then you can tape the 721 right next to the DW and transfer each spoke over. get spoke prep, some good tunes and beer, and take your time!

Mel, not if the ERD of the ditch witch and the 721 are different.
Even a 2mm difference (or 1mm in ERD) in spoke length will make for a poor build.

Also, it is always best to replace spokes when building a new wheel, if it has been tweaked (which it sounds like it has), you will have uneven spoke tension, which creates a weak build.

Start from scratch, IMO.

Originally Posted by rideit

Start from scratch, IMO.

Seconded. Unless it's a townie or a beater, do it right.

I did it once from scratch by following the book and it actually wasn't that bad, but really time consuming. My wheel turned out pretty strong too.

Yeah, definitely starting from scratch.

Rideit, I'll let you know the spoke size when I figure out which hub I have. What do people suggest in the spoke department? Butted, double butted, hungry butted?

Anybody know which hub the Hayes/Hugi was off the top of their head (probably 5ish years old)? I can find out when I get home, but figured I'd check.

It is a DT 240.

I have the same one.

there actually is double butted and triple butted, but no single butted.

I personally think DB build a stronger wheel, (due to elasticity) but that is an endless debate

yea, i stand corrected. build it from scratch. make sure to have the tunes and beer though....

If cheap spokes you want, I would just use cheaper DT straight gauge spokes. As rideit said, there are good reasons for the double butted spokes (evenly disperses forces, yadda, yadda, yadda) but for a simple strong wheel where weight isn't an issue, the straight gauge spokes do feel stiff and are a lot cheaper. If you want them light I agree with rideit, double-butted. Go-ride should have what you need.

Wheel building is pretty easy if you have some patience and beer. I just got my new front hub today and plan on building it up any day. It'll be #8 for me. I'm no expert, but the builds have been solid so far.

Oh, and I use lots of triflow as spoke prep.

BT, I can *probably* get you the DB spokes for the same price as straight gauge, if I have them kicking around.

Just an aside, I use spoke prep ON the threads, and ALWAYS use tri-flow on the 'bed' (seat?) of the nipple/eyelet interface, but I NEVER use Tri-flow on the threads...it dissapates over time, causing a potential galvanic corrosion situation, especially between steel spokes and alloy nipples.
That is why true spoke prep is superior...it is (theoretically) impervious to moisture dissapation (wash).
Just a couple of pennies of insight....

(from close to 1,000 wheel builds, FWIW, not that I am claiming expertise, just lots of spoke wrench hours)

Originally Posted by rideit

Just an aside, I use spoke prep ON the threads, and ALWAYS use tri-flow on the 'bed' (seat?) of the nipple/eyelet interface, but I NEVER use Tri-flow on the threads...it dissapates over time, causing a potential galvanic corrosion situation, especially between steel spokes and alloy nipples.
That is why true spoke prep is superior...it is (theoretically) impervious to moisture dissapation (wash).

Thanks for the tip. I kinda posted that hoping someone would give more on the topic since I'm just a guy who builds wheels for my (and wife's) bikes. Is there a brand/type of prep you think is best?

Originally Posted by rideit

Even a 2mm difference (or 1mm in ERD) in spoke length will make for a poor build.

BAH!!!


poppycock!

Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler

Thanks for the tip. I kinda posted that hoping someone would give more on the topic since I'm just a guy who builds wheels for my (and wife's) bikes. Is there a brand/type of prep you think is best?

The pink Wheelsmith stuff has always been the goto, though I think it's now around $25 a bottle...I think DT makes some stuff too but never tried it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

For some reason I thought the hub was a 32, but it's a 36, so Plan A is out.

Plan B involves dusting off my X3.1, which despite being an XC rim has held up to years of abuse with minimal damage.

I've built a few wheels from scratch with great success, do it! Like everyone else said, be methodical about it, don't rush, etc. I've honestly found tri flow to work nearly as well as the fancy pants pink spoke prep stuff. Oh, and don't try to multi-task and watch an episode of 24 while building the wheel... I got totally screwed up and had to backpedal, undo a bunch of spokes. Most decent shops have pre-determined spoke lengths calculated for hub/rim/build combos... When you buy your spokes, ask the shop tech nicely to cut them for you. Oh, and always buy a few extra, easier to fix a broken one with one already cut to teh right length.

DT makes a product called Lube-it. Best spoke prep there is. In a pinch, I use a quirt of Tenacious oil.

Originally Posted by Chaka

When you buy your spokes, ask the shop tech nicely to cut them for you.

That is no longer protocol...most shop rats wouldn't know how to cut a spoke correctly anymore than they would know how to write a thank you note. Shops simply stock pre-cut and threaded spoke lengths. There are simply too many variables in rim/hub combos to have 'pre-sets' in stock anymore.

bummer... Guess I am fortunate enough to know some guys at an exceptional LBS.

Originally Posted by kidwoo

BAH!!!


poppycock!

That has been my experience. Let's say your drive side spokes were 2mm too short, and your non drive side spokes 2mm too long (edit)...trust me, you are going to have a crap wheel, with spoke breaking tension on the drive side, and low, low tension on the non drive.

You would have a CRAP wheel, IMO.

Originally Posted by rideit

That has been my experience. Let's say your drive side spokes were 2mm too short, and your non drive side spokes 2mm too short...trust me, you are going to have a crap wheel, with spoke breaking tension on the drive side, and low, low tension on the non drive.

You would have a CRAP wheel, IMO.

Meh

I've used spokes 1mm off for years any time the right box o' spokes wasn't present.

At least once I used a side that was 2mm off. I think that wheel in particular has been going strong on my dh bike for 2+ years. It's a front wheel though

1mm doesn't mean squat. 2mm might if you don't pay attention.

You go well beyond 2mm of thread in tensioning a wheel. Especially when you consider you'll be re-tensioning them after the first few rides.

Yeah you should always try to find the right length but 1mm off is fine.

1mm off of ERD is 2mm off spoke length, I believe. Combine that with other sizing discrepancies, and you can have a headache. I know it is often feasable, my point is that it is pretty specific.

Originally Posted by rideit

1mm off of ERD is 2mm off spoke length, I believe. Combine that with other sizing discrepancies, and you can have a headache. I know it is often feasable, my point is that it is pretty specific.

I just meant being 1mm off in spoke length. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. Plus I just wanted to say 'poppycock'

But yeah, you better know your rim ERD........

woo, quit yer yappin' and go dig me up a light but burly 36 hole rim.

STAT!!

Originally Posted by bagtagley

woo, quit yer yappin' and go dig me up a light but burly 36 hole rim.

STAT!!

All mine are on my bikes.

I do have a 721 built up on a hayes hub that's NOT on a bike........but it's 32h.