Thread: knolly endorphin -- I want one!

Wow! Very interesting bike.

Knolly Endorphin
7 lbs
5.5 inches rear travel
The couple of Interbike 2006 demo rides are very positive. Stiff, stiff, stiff, sticky, sticky, sticky. I've been close to pulling the trigger on an el ciclon or, on some days, an Intense 6.6, but the endorphin might be the bees knees. It ain't cheap, and it probably won't be available until May or June. Am I on drugs? Well, too many drugs?

I'm not sure, but I'm sure tempted by the new El Terremoto.....
And the RFX....

Originally Posted by Telenater

I'm not sure, but I'm sure tempted by the new El Terremoto.....
And the RFX....

I am here for my token statement that both of you should get 6.6s.

Originally Posted by Telenater

I'm not sure, but I'm sure tempted by the new El Terremoto.....
And the RFX....

I have moments of serious temptation for either of those two bikes as well. There are almost too many good options in that 5-6+ travel range that can span a huge range of riding. I start to get a little nervous that bikes like the RFX will be too much bike for my interests, but I keep thinking of how much I like my 97mm waist LPs for just about everything (prefer 188 stiff bros for bc, although that's as much to do with dynafits as the skis). And then I think I'm looking for the LP of bikes... Hmm.

BTW, you should check out the May MBA. They had a set of 5 Turners and gave their take on each bike throughout the range: nitrous, flux, sultan 29er, spot, rfx. It's an interesting piece -- nothing surprising really -- just one of the few times where anyone reviews bikes in that kind of context.

Originally Posted by Rontele

I am here for my token statement that both of you should get 6.6s.

Yes, I intend to try to demo the 6.6, but I've always liked being up out of the saddle for climbing. Apparently that doesn't play too well with the VPP suspension systems. And I loved climbing on Arty's 5spot.

Originally Posted by Rontele

I am here for my token statement that both of you should get a Dirtbag.

There you go...Sorry I'm a little biased since I just got a DB as well...Seriously that knolly looks sick. Has anyone here riden one?

transitions are all the rage this year, 575 is out, 6.6 is passee, nomad didn't make a splash in the pool. knollys are the queens soft and gooey

Cowdog, just sack up man. Keep your Flux and buy my V-Tach. Imagine how you could slay the techie descents!

But seriously, I understand. Noel builds good shit.

If you want to do a ride together this Spring and test my 5-Spot or 6-Pack I'm sure we could arrange that pretty easily. Sleeping Child Creek just south of Hamilton should be rideable by next weekend. That's a good test of a FS trail rig.

Originally Posted by Telenater

Yes, I intend to try to demo the 6.6, but I've always liked being up out of the saddle for climbing. Apparently that doesn't play too well with the VPP suspension systems. And I loved climbing on Arty's 5spot.

The Horst Turners climb very well and stick to the trail nicely. They also corner very very well. I really dig my 6-Pack and 5-Spot. They're fuckin' orgasmic to ride.

I would take Rontele's and kidwoo's words on the 6.6 though, I'm sure that rig rides like a champ.

Originally Posted by uncle crud

CSleeping Child Creek just south of Hamilton should be rideable by next weekend.

I'm guessin that everything below 7000 feet will be rideable by next weekend. It's fucking grim down here, man.

Originally Posted by uncle crud

Cowdog, just sack up man. Keep your Flux and buy my V-Tach. Imagine how you could slay the techie descents!

That thought has crossed my mind, but given that my brain still operates like a 15 year old and my body is ... well ... 3 x 15 year olds, I try to avoid bikes that would encourage me to be too crazy, because in the heat of the moment I give full control to the inner 15 year old. I plan to keep skiing and riding for many, many more decades. Plus, I'm too poor to afford two mtn bikes...

I may be heading up to see Chad at Redbarn next Saturday. Crud, I'll let you know as the details emerge.

I really like how the 6.6 rides. The only downside is the sizing is a little tough for me and the high bb. I feel really tall in the saddle on a large 6.6 and don't think I could squeeze myself into a medium. I like to feel like I'm riding in the suspension, not on top of it. Having spent two years on a Turner with a classic low bb/center of gravity, the 6.6 is an odd feeling to me. I would adapt, I'm sure, and like I said, the bike rides and handles very, very well. The other problem with a 6.6 is that I think I would want to stick a Lyrik on there. And then I priced a Lyrik. WTF!!!

I have given a thought or two to the Transition Covert. Dave at Redstone is offering Transition bikes at a smoking price, and I would love to support Dave with a purchase. I do like overbuilt bikes, and that seems to describe Transition.

But that Knolly Endorphin. Very interesting. Hmm.

But cowdog, wouldn't any fork that you would slap on 6.6 be real pricey? it seems every 160mm fork these days are super duper serially priced.

Originally Posted by RootSkier

I'm guessin that everything below 7000 feet will be rideable by next weekend. It's fucking grim down here, man.

Yeah, Snowbowl was fun corn/slush yesterday but the bare spots were everywhere. Meadows traverse almost isn't passable. It's shaping up to be a low-water, many-fires year it looks like.

Originally Posted by uncle crud

The Horst Turners climb very well and stick to the trail nicely. They also corner very very well. I really dig my 6-Pack and 5-Spot. They're fuckin' orgasmic to ride.

The Turners are nice, but in my opinion overrated... If it wasn't for David Turner being tight with magazine editors, the spotlight wouldn't be so bright on these bikes. I have many , many miles on a 6-pack and 5-spot's. They do handle nice just like all other bikes in the same price range, what irrates me most is the BB height in these bikes. To Low, you constantly bang the cranks in the rock sections.

Man up and take a ride on a Foes, talk about a machine. You don't hear about them in every magazine, but maybe you should. Hands down one of the best on the market.

Originally Posted by treadn

The Turners are nice, but in my opinion overrated... If it wasn't for David Turner being tight with magazine editors, the spotlight wouldn't be so bright on these bikes. I have many , many miles on a 6-pack and 5-spot's. They do handle nice just like all other bikes in the same price range, what irrates me most is the BB height in these bikes. To Low, you constantly bang the cranks in the rock sections.

Man up and take a ride on a Foes, talk about a machine. You don't hear about them in every magazine, but maybe you should. Hands down one of the best on the market.

I'm not sure what "over-rated" means. Do you mean they are too expensive for what they deliver in terms of build or ride quality?

What I also wonder is how you can say something that seems to tell me that the Turner isn't the best bike I've ridden. That does not make sense to me. I've ridden Specialized bikes that supposedly ride as well, but their tail wagging got on my nerves, and their pivot slop after one season of hard riding is annoying as hell too. I'm not saying Turners are perfect. I'm just pointing out that if you ride in a manner that the Turner bikes complement, there's nothing at all "over-rated" about being happy about how well they work for you. Besides, if you're not skilled enough to deal with the possibility of pedal strikes on a low-BB framed bike, I wonder how you can judge "over-rated" quality. ????

And for highly skilled riders like professional and semi-pro gravity racers, it's more the rider than the bike anyway.

Your opinion on the Foes is interesting because it's in the minority of people I've known, talked to or read about who have spent time on them.

But in the end, it's good that I'm happy with what I ride, and you're happy with the Foes. That matters more than whether an opinion is "over-rated." Besides, if you want to talk about "over-rated," I think there are probably many better examples than Turners. Having owned a Banshee Scream, I'd put that bike way before any Turner in terms of over-hyped and not living up to the hype.

Originally Posted by treadn

what irrates me most is the BB height in these bikes. To Low, you constantly bang the cranks in the rock sections.

Turner's current offerings don't seem to suffer from this problem by comparison.
BB heights
6.6: 13.75
RFX: 14.1
Nomad: 14.2
Terremoto: 13.8
Endorphin: 13.5
Inferno: 14.2

Originally Posted by uncle crud

I'm not sure what "over-rated" means. Do you mean they are too expensive for what they deliver in terms of build or ride quality?

What I also wonder is how you can say something that seems to tell me that the Turner isn't the best bike I've ridden. That does not make sense to me. I've ridden Specialized bikes that supposedly ride as well, but their tail wagging got on my nerves, and their pivot slop after one season of hard riding is annoying as hell too. I'm not saying Turners are perfect. I'm just pointing out that if you ride in a manner that the Turner bikes complement, there's nothing at all "over-rated" about being happy about how well they work for you. Besides, if you're not skilled enough to deal with the possibility of pedal strikes on a low-BB framed bike, I wonder how you can judge "over-rated" quality. ????

Your opinion on the Foes is interesting because it's in the minority of people I've known, talked to or read about who have spent time on them.

But in the end, it's good that I'm happy with what I ride, and you're happy with the Foes. That matters more than whether an opinion is "over-rated." Besides, if you want to talk about "over-rated," I think there are probably many better examples than Turners. Having owned a Banshee Scream, I'd put that bike way before any Turner in terms of over-hyped and not living up to the hype.

I never said that the Turner "wasn't the best bike you have ridden". It isn't the best bike I've ridden, but you and I have different opinions.

Consumers in general purchase products they are familiar with. Most MTB folks are familiar with Turner because of their presence in most magazines, usually reviews or advertisements.

Companies like Foes, Ventana, Knolly and many many others you don't see in magazines as much may produce a better ride. Some cost more, some cost less. These types of companies are the "minorites" in the MTB world only because you don't see them in 4 magazines a month.

What matters most is being happy with what you have. You are happy with a Turner I am happy with a Foes, and my neighbor is happy with his Wally world
$111.00 special. So be it get out and RIDE!

And oh by the way like the Turner the Foes is highly rated on MTBR... Guess my opinion isn't the minority.
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Allmtn_F...t_123984.shtml

Originally Posted by Rontele

But cowdog, wouldn't any fork that you would slap on 6.6 be real pricey? it seems every 160mm fork these days are super duper serially priced.

Lyrik = Too new to find them used or significantly discounted. I maintain/rebuild all my forks/shocks regularly and have found good deals on previous model year forks or used forks that only needed a little TLC in exchange for a low investment.

But yeah, forks are not cheap, esp. in that >140mm range of forks.

Originally Posted by Telenater

Turner's current offerings don't seem to suffer from this problem by comparison.
BB heights
6.6: 13.75
RFX: 14.1
Nomad: 14.2
Terremoto: 13.8
Endorphin: 13.5
Inferno: 14.2

The Turner Spot comes in at 13.6
http://www.turnerbikes.com/2007/spot.html

Why focus on banging cranks when you can get something with an additional .6 of clearance?

I'll question unclecrud "Besides, if you're not skilled enough to deal with the possibility of pedal strikes on a low-BB framed bike, I wonder how you can judge "over-rated" quality. ????"

Skill has nothing to do with this, common sense does... All of us on this topic have the skill, buy why use it if you can have a piece of equipment that will clear most obstacles?

Work SMARTER not HARDER.

The longer wheelbase and lower bb on the spot is one of the things that so many riders have liked about the spot. Very stable and confidence inspiring bike. If I had bought a spot two years back I probably wouldn't be looking for a new ride right now. But the spot, just like Turner bikes in general, isn't for everyone.

Basically when you buy a bike from a manufacturer, you buy into their approach to geometry/fit and handling, although many of us focus way, way too much on the FS design category or small aspects of the geometry. All the parts play together in the ride, and subtle differences can have a large impact. Turner continually refines (rather than innovates) and offers a product with proven capabilities, excellent durability/maintenance and subtle but distinct enough in-the-saddle differences that many riders really like his bikes.

Back OT, buy the Knolly. So you can post pics and tell us how rad it is, b/c I want to know about those things

As for the Foes, I've spent 4 seasons on my FXR and would absolutely buy another Foes. They are sick bikes. I don't think anyone is debating that. Turners are too.

We'll see what Noel says about the endorphin, esp. availability and other pertinent details.

I've never put my eyes a Foes bike in person, but from what I've heard I think I could be very happy with a 2:1 FXR. I would love to feel how a Curnutt shock rides.

Originally Posted by Telenater

Turner's current offerings don't seem to suffer from this problem by comparison.
BB heights
6.6: 13.75
RFX: 14.1
Nomad: 14.2
Terremoto: 13.8
Endorphin: 13.5
Inferno: 14.2

This is more consistent with what I have experienced with my 6.6. Surprising that cowdowg thought that it was too high. I had to remove my big ring and put on a bashguard because I thought the BB was too low and I bashed the crap out of my big ring.

But it sure makes for a well handling bike. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the bikes listed.

rontele, that is interesting -- I didn't really look at the numbers. I'm not sure why the 6.6 felt so tall to me. The one time I put my flux next to a 6.6 (the one I rode), the bb height was so much higher it surprised me. I can't remember what the fork was nor did I do anything to setup the bike for me specifically. I just took the opportunity and headed for the hills. Maybe the fork just had a really tall axle to crown height. That would make a big difference. Also, I probably didn't have enough sag (front or rear), which would make it taller as well. I don't know. My opinion forming 6.6 ride was last summer. The thing pedaled very smoothly and accelerated like a racer. The only thing I really remember about descending was that it faster than it felt, very smooth and almost made blunt hits feel trivial. But I also remember feeling very tall on the bike.

yep, fork A to C, tire volume, sag, headset type, all can make a big difference in the C of gravity 'feel' and the true, on-the-trail BB height.

e.g. i have some 2.35 and 2.5 Kenda blue grooves that lower the BB significantly relative to some 2.4 specialized tires.

VPP is designed to have a pretty sizable amount of sag. i've owned or own horst-link 4 bars, faux bars, high single pivot, and VPP, and in my inestimable opinion the VPP owns the 6+ inch category. you can run a VPP bike with 35 % sag and still get a bike that doesn't feel like a marshmallow under hard pedalling efforts -- WITHOUT resorting to the band-aid of high levels of low freq compression damping on the shock.

Nater refers to VPP and out-of-saddle pedalling ... i agree and disagree with what he's heard. Yes, I've found that the typical 4-5 inch VPP bike (i.e. blur) feels a bit too locked-out and hard-tail-feeling in those technical uphill situations. Rear tire doesn't track as well as a decent 4-bar. But in the longer-travel (6 - 8+) category, the zone that the VPP tries to keep the rear axle in is pretty large, relatively speaking. So rather than getting that full-on hardtail feeling in out of saddle bursts, you get something that feels efficient but still active and ground-tracking.

By no means does this mean I'm saying Don't Buy A Turner RFX. it's the mm and the fraction of degrees that seems to make one frame rock and another not rock. Turner geo always seems pretty dialled and ahead of industry trends (i.e. lower BB). Actually the 2007 RFX is following rather than setting an industry trend....the 2007 RFX is significantly lighter and more trail-bikey than the old RFX and the 6-pack.

I strongly contemplated a highline recently but got the uzzi vpx and dig it mightily. I still have the yeti 575 for longer, less technical rides.

Was there a comment about MBA hyping Turner and not Foes? sorry, facts argue otherwise. MBA / MB fiction has hyped Foes heavily for years and years.

Knolly is a great company with very low BS factor, and gives great email responses to engineering-type questions and ruminations. came close to buying the longer-travel knolly.