AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

[altasnowbirdripper]

Ouch, that sucks. I noticed the thread bump, and was hoping it was Axon related.

How can they be so heavy, and yet so soft in forward flex?? This was supposed to be the big bertha of dynafit boots?

Tony, thanks for the update on BDel 2009, but I cant see an AT boot actually having Flex 130.
Hell, I would be happy to see Flex 90 or 100 in AT.

I have the Zzero 4Carbon, and will now keep them with a few mods. Stiffer tongue, intuition alpine powerwrap liners, and a boot punch. Sounds like the best bet until next year. Thanks.

I totally agree – 100 to 110 flex index, walk mode, 4 buckles & interchangeable soles & I would love it! A true 130 flex boot is so stiff. My current alpine boot is a 07 Lange WC 130 and I definitely think AT/Freeride boot with a touring/walking mode doesn’t need to be that stiff. But I guess I would like to try both the Shaman & BD’s new boot to really see. What I have heard about the new BD Freeride boots, the 130 model boot will be similar to the Garmont Shaman, no walk mode just interchangeable heels & toes - alpine & a lugged-rockered walker. I am real anxious to see all their new Freeride boots though. There is a TON of positive buzz around the Wasatch and a LOT of Patrollers are very anxious to get into them. My friends & I are on the look out & hopefully we can snag a some pics & more beta at the resorts. If we do, we'll get pics & info posted as soon as we get it.

[dk_alaskan]

Here's the text of the BD press release about the boots. I look forward to getting a pair and testing them in early 2008

Black Diamond Freeride Ski Boots set to launch Fall 2008

November 1, 2007 (Salt Lake City, Utah) – Black Diamond Equipment Ltd., a global leader in the climbing and freeride ski markets, announced the timeline and product mix for its much anticipated ski boot line set to debut for Fall 2008.

“We just completed Boot Camp with our North American reps, the BD Boot team and European management and are excited for the snow to fall and get the boots out on retailer’s feet on the hill,” states Thomas Laakso, Ski Category Group Director. “Skiing has changed dramatically in the past few years and being able to build boots from the ground up with state of the art technologies and a modern skier’s perspective has enabled us to meet the exacting needs of the boundary–free skier.”

The BD Boot program reprises the award-winning launch of the Fall 2007 ski line and will be aimed at the emerging market that demands full-time, high performance combined with unbounded access in a single pair of boots. The boots blend alpine-inspired technologies with backcountry functionality that is synced up with BD’s Efficient Power technology platform, an integral part of their Freeride Ski line.

“Skiing is all about the down,” explains Laakso. “Our alpine touring (AT) and telemark boots have design elements that are both power and efficiency based so consumers may choose the model that best fits their personal style while maximizing their downhill control. All our boots are focused on uncompromising performance which means exceptional fits, true alpine progressive flexes and ultimate hiking access to the goods.”

BD will debut three AT models in the Power Series – the paradigm breaking, four-buckle Factor, a softer flexing Method and the Women’s Shiva. Each boot blends alpine overlap construction with lightweight touring functionality combining the performance an alpine skier demands while providing a highly articulated walk mode for access to the backcountry.

On the telemark side, BD will break out with two collections geared around its Power and Efficiency platforms. The Power Series is built around the Custom, Push and Women’s Stiletto. All three boots raise the bar with progressive flex, torsional power, and alpine inspired fit technologies. The Efficient series adds the Seeker, Women’s Trance and Axis blending smooth, predictable bellows with high torsional stiffness in a lightweight versatile package.

All boots introduce solutions for achieving a proper and comfortable fit, with modern engineered lasts, unique and customizable boot boards, strobled and true lasted liner constructions, stock custom thermoformable foot beds and an exclusive Boa closure system that enables fit and performance advantages.

“As the largest, most expensive, complex development project we’ve ever undertaken, it’s hard to contain my enthusiasm about these boots,” adds Peter Metcalf CEO of Black Diamond. “They represent the best of BD today, exemplifying our design philosophy in terms of innovative product. BD Boots will fully meet the demands of today’s freeride skier. We set out to build a better boot for the skier who wants one boot to rip all terrain and our design team has delivered.”

Will BD FINALLY be the one company that realizes there is a HUDGE need for HUDGE boots for guys with feet bigger than a 30.0??? An even BIGGER need for a high performance monster AT boot (preferably Dynafit compatible)???

PLEASE, if any of manufacturers are following this thread, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, I IMPLORE you to make a 31.5+ AT boot that has a flex of MORE than 100-I PROMISE it would sell!!! It would be AWESOME to have an AT boot that has a flex between 110-120 , however, I am desperate so I won't be THAT choosy. The only boots I know of which run bigger than a 31 are for Rando racing, not designed around high performance, hard charging bigger guys. I am tired of splitting the seams on my AT boots!!!

[Tony]

Added to the list:

2009 Scarpa Typhoon (4-buckle tongue design , flex "between Hurricane and Tornado Pro", stiff and touring tongues option, DIN-standard rubber soles, Hurricane-style cuff BUT with walk mode and rockered soles, super nice and stiff Intuiton liner, Scarpa Booster Strap) and Skookum (ditto plus Dynafit inserts, probably the hot new thing for guys that want the stiffest Dynafit compatible boot but don't fit the Axon or the new BD Factor).

2009 Black Diamond Factor (4-buckle overlap design, 130 "BD flex" whatever that means, flat DIN sole plus optional Dynafit-compatible rockered toe/heel inserts, walk mode, new BOA tech thermo liner) and Method (ditto but 110 flex plus the additional Dynafit toe/heels inserts are included).

I'm completely stoked at the Skookum, apparently someone at Scarpa's Design Dept. reads this website:
- 90 flex (not too stiff, not too soft, perfect....at least for me )
- 4-buckle alpine design
- Rockered rubber sole + Dynafit inserts
- Walk mode
- 2 tongues (stiff and touring)
- Intuiton Speed Pro liners with alpine-style tongues
- Booster Strap

There are already threads focused on these new boots 2009 boots.

I would also like to enter Garmont's new 2009 boots (Radium, Argon and Helium). They are overlap-design 4-buckle (Radium and Argon) and 3-buckle (Helium) boots. The Radium also have Dynafit inserts but I have not find info on their flex rating. Anyone???

[laseranimal]

I heart this thread

[deeppo]

Looks like black Diamond and scarpa are stepping up. So the typhoon will be stiffer then the skookum?? I think a 100 to 110 flex boot will be perfect. If BD really has a 130 it will be a great choice for slackcountry and euro folks, but too stiff for longer tours(maybe not)
So far my tornado pros have been great but a rockerd sole and stiffer flex would be sweet
Deeppo

[Tony]

If BD really has a 130 it will be a great choice for.....euro folks

Most touring in Europe is longer than in the US due to the extensive hut system in the Alps. Why Euros would like more a heavier 130 flex compared to North Americans? I don't get your logic.

The drive for stiffer (and heavier) AT boots, bindings like the Duke and for fatter AT skis is the North American market. Most people in the Alps still tour in 70-80 mm. waisted skis with Fritschi/Dynafit bindings and Laser/Matrix/Megarides. You get to see the heavier stuff but most people still are in the lightweight camp.

[Tony]

Another one bites the dust:

Presenting the new 2009 Dynafit Zzeus: http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=1004

This is Dynafit's horse to compete feature for feature with the BD Factor, Scarpa Skookum and Garmont Radium.

I'm starting to feel sorry for all of you stiffer boot users that already bought Tornados and Adrenalines. HA HA, no complimentary Dynafit inserts for you .

[Neon]

Most touring in Europe is longer than in the US due to the extensive hut system in the Alps. Why Euros would like more a heavier 130 flex compared to North Americans? I don't get your logic.

The drive for stiffer (and heavier) AT boots, bindings like the Duke and for fatter AT skis is the North American market. Most people in the Alps still tour in 70-80 mm. waisted skis with Fritschi/Dynafit bindings and Laser/Matrix/Megarides. You get to see the heavier stuff but most people still are in the lightweight camp.

Sooo true! Most people I know find Lasers too stiff and heavy, some of them even took out the tongue...

[Neon]

Another one bites the dust:

Presenting the new 2009 Dynafit Zzeus: http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=1004

This is Dynafit's horse to compete feature for feature with the BD Factor, Scarpa Skookum and Garmont Radium.

I'm starting to feel sorry for all of you stiffer boot users that already bought Tornados and Adrenalines. HA HA, no complimentary Dynafit inserts for you .

Classy looking boot...

[laseranimal]

damn, thats a good looking boot

and DIN soles

please tell me this boot is going to be like 1 billion dollars so I don't feel regret having bought FR Aero's

although if someone rolls out an alpine binding that accepts a rockered boot I won't feel nearly as bad

[Jax]

I would also like to enter Garmont's new 2009 boots (Radium, Argon and Helium). They are overlap-design 4-buckle (Radium and Argon) and 3-buckle (Helium) boots. The Radium also have Dynafit inserts but I have not find info on their flex rating. Anyone???

I'll have specific flex ratings for you guys in less than two weeks. The samples we have are not a final production. Hang tight.

Cheers,

J

[Arno]

I'm completely stoked at the Skookum, apparently someone at Scarpa's Design Dept. reads this website:
- 90 flex (not too stiff, not too soft, perfect....at least for me )
- 4-buckle alpine design
- Rockered rubber sole + Dynafit inserts
- Walk mode
- 2 tongues (stiff and touring)
- Intuiton Speed Pro liners with alpine-style tongues
- Booster Strap

sounds like the Spirit 4 with a Booster strap

edit: just seen the bit about alpine-style tongues

the choice is getting bewildering!

[deeppo]

I understand that many euros like lighter equipment for longer tours but all my buddies who spend a few month there do short tour to get to the goods. half hour hike and so forth.
Thats all
Deeppo

[LeeLau]

Here's the text of the Scarpa PR (edit - got the PR from Scarpa - now I see its also on feedthehabit.com). I've made no bones about being a huge fan of Intuition liners. Can't wait to get my hands on the Skookum and test it.

SCARPA creates dominant new freeride/AT boots for aggressive skiing in any terrain

Typhoon, women’s Domina, Dynafit-compatible Skookum set bar for performance in a sidecountry/backcountry friendly design.

BOULDER, Colo. – Unleashing the most sophisticated combination yet of downhill performance in a touring- and mountaineering-friendly package, SCARPA North America will release two new hard-charging freeride boots for Fall 2008, the Typhoon and the women’s-specific Domina. In addition, SCARPA will also unveil the Skookum, a boot for big skis and big lines that’s also Dynafit compatible.

For sidecountry adventures or ski touring and mountaineering with the ultimate in control, these three boots set the bar in the freeride/alpine-touring category. They’re ideal for the skier that needs a super rigid boot for aggressive terrain yet wants the versatility to put it in walk mode for that quick boot up the ridge or the tour to reach a steep descent.

SHELLS: Built with 100 percent Pebax, the best material available for building lightweight ski boots that can retain their stiffness over the widest range of temperatures, the Typhoon, Domina and Skookum employ dual-injected V-Frame power-ribs on the cuffs for extraordinary rigidity. A walk/tour mode keeps things comfy when not in downhill mode. Four buckles and a power strap lock things down for the ride. These boots come with hinged tongues for touring as well as ski tongues that easily swap out for a 20 percent increase in boot stiffness. The Skookum adds tech fittings in the lower shell for Dynafit compatibility. It also comes with SCARPA’s booster power strap.

LINER: Intuition liners are the best thermo-moldable liners in the business, renowned for resistance to pack-out and warmth, which is why SCARPA boots come stock with them. The new SCARPA Intuition Speed Pro liners, used in the Typhoon, Domina and Skookum, are built with an alpine-style tongue, which allows SCARPA to increase their rigidity, translating to a stiffer overall boot design. Yet the way they are stiffened on the back of the cuff means they still have excellent range of motion when in walk mode. Liners come lasted for men’s and women’s feet respectively, and the thermo-molding process fine-tunes the fit.

SOLES: Notable because it’s the only DIN-standard rubberized sole on the market that can be skied in alpine or alpine-touring bindings without changing out any parts, the SCARPA/Vibram Ride sole comes standard on the Typhoon and Domina. This offers the maximum security in the widest range of binding interfaces with excellent traction for icy conditions. For those who prefer a burlier lugged mountaineering sole, the SCARPA Rally lugged sole can easily be added to either boot. The Skookum employs a touring friendly lugged sole.

SPECS: Typhoon and Domina: 4 pounds, 3 ounces per boot (size 27); forward lean 19 – 23 degrees; Retail $699. Skookum: Retail $769.


Here's the pictures I have. I'm told these are the most recent prototypes

Domina



Skookum



Typhoon

[Tony]

I understand that many euros like lighter equipment for longer tours but all my buddies who spend a few month there do short tour to get to the goods. half hour hike and so forth.
Thats all
Deeppo

So "all my buddies (from the US) who spend a few month there" don't qualify as Euro Folks. This is exactly my point. It is beacuse of North American skiers' preference that the new designs are stiffer and beefier. Good to have stiffer choices though.

[Tony]

sounds like the Spirit 4 with a Booster strap

edit: just seen the bit about alpine-style tongues

the choice is getting bewildering!

First, it's not just another Spirit 4 with Booster strap. According to Scarpa, it's way stiffer than a Spirit 4, almost Hurricane-stiff.

Second, you get the super nice Intuiton thermo liners with alpine-style tongues and the Booster Strap INCLUDED, the two most common mods we do around here once we replaced with stiff Denali/Tornado tongues (those are ALSO included with both the Spirit 4 and the Skookum).

Third, for the first time in a Scarpa Dynafit-compatible boot the buckle config is a real alpine-style 4-buckle config (vis-a-vis the Spirit 4/Denali/Tornado design). I know that some people prefer the 2nd buckle over their ankle. I don't, but to each its own.

[LeeLau]

Scarpa video on new boots - typhoon, skookum, domino and Scarpa tele boots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kna8FEonUAM

- the new intuition liners are basically beefed up new Intuition plug boots - it has the standard Ultralon foam then a wrap of the stiffer foam put into Powerwraps around the top part of the liner.

- some "powerribs" to make them stiffer.

The rest seem to have been covered off in their PRs.

[Hugh Conway]

Third, for the first time in a Scarpa Dynafit-compatible boot the buckle config is a real alpine-style 4-buckle config (vis-a-vis the Spirit 4/Denali/Tornado design). I know that some people prefer the 2nd buckle over their ankle. I don't, but to each its own.

Thats what I'm happy about. My feet like Scarpas, but they don't like the crank down around the ankle buckle.



yeah, euro hut touring = lightweight skis & lightweight boots. Lasers are extremely popular.

"Freeride" = big heavy boots & skis and thats the same at every "freeride" place around the world now.

[Imz]

Great thread...

I'd been pretty happy with my Mega-Rides in the BC until we started sledding & I had an option to wear my Lange World Cups. I found myself continuously trying to chimp down on the Garmont's buckles to tighten them. Definitely interested in the new crop of boots.

A couple things:

1) Will any Raichle tongue transfer to a Mega Ride? I'd heard even an Adrenaline tongue is different...

2) The rails on my sled absolutely shred all the soft plastic appliques under the arch of my boot- anyone seen an AT design more resistant to snowmopunishment?

[JLB]

Skied my Garmont Axons out of the box last night @ Snowking.

Tomorrow the boots will receive: Booster straps, Intuition Power wrap liners, custom footbeds, and a tongue from either Kryptons or Tornados. I will report back Monday eve with secondary impressions.

Exactly the same mods I'm looking to do on my axons. Which tongue did you end up going with? I played around with a tongue from my kryptons and feel the height is much more to my taste. The only question I have is what size tongue for my 27.0s and how to mount them..

[Hugh Conway]

Here's a link to a summary of the Eurozone pricing for BDs AT boots.
http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/89/
$750 for the Factor isn't bad.

[Tony]

Bump 'cause I need info on the Dynafit Zzeus and the new Garmont Overlap boots.

[blockhead]

Anyone else ski this boot ? Crispi-Diablo Free Ride - Around a 110 Flex - Skis great and drives big fat skis just fine - Weight 1700 grams and a super plush heat moldable thermo liner.

I have a pair of these. A good choice I believe, although do not like the stock liner very much.
In comparison with my XWave 880 (with flex=80) they're stiffer. 110 flex? hmm it's hard to confirm that, but definitely very good value for the money in terms of freeriding, according to my first impressions.

[Tony]

Still bumping 'cause I need info on the Dynafit Zzeus and the new Garmont Overlap boots.

400 posts. It only took 14 months.

[snoweater]

have to interrupt and say great friggin thread!!!!!!!!
I'm looking into AT boots after fighting the urge for a while (i'm broke), and this is like porn.