AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

[robnow]

Bump because the Shaman is officially rated a 120 flex (and I have some coming in the next week or so)

Its actually 130, and Jax is right, not really an AT boot at all, just a plug race boot with swappable soles. I got mine though and loving them.

[Jax]

Its actually 130, and Jax is right, not really an AT boot at all, just a plug race boot with swappable soles. I got mine though and loving them.

Just so everyone is clear here the Shamen is not a 130. The FI imprint on the side came from the G1 race boot in Italy, as it is the same mold. The G1 is a 130, but the Shamen is a 120, even though it says 130 on the boot. I am having to remind a few dealers of this minor flaw, unfortunately. Also, the G1 is not available in the states.

[robnow]

Really?

I would have figured the G1 to be even higher.

Jax, I'll never ever make that mistake again.

[Jax]

Really?

I would have figured the G1 to be even higher.

Jax, I'll never ever make that mistake again.

There is a 140 in EU as well. Not sure what you meant by the other statement, but I'm guessing your sarcasm meter is a bit high?

[robnow]

There is a 140 in EU as well. Not sure what you meant by the other statement, but I'm guessing your sarcasm meter is a bit high?

Because I stated them as 130s and now I def know they are 120. Thats all!

[Jax]

Because I stated them as 130s and now I def know they are 120. Thats all!

Ok got it. Have you been out on them much? What alpine boots have you skied previously? Initial thoughts? Do you have plans to replace the Cizeta liner? I'm anxious to hear other peeps thoughts, but not many have hand their hands on them yet. You should do a review! Feedback = good *hint hint*

[robnow]

I've remarked how great they are already a few times in other threads.

Haven't skied them yet, just worn around the house a lot, lack of snow.

AMAZING fit straight out of the box. No punches needed yet, we'll see once I get on them a few days. I can't believe this is the first boot to come with a more anatomical fit. Blows my mind. I've been on Nordicas for years, Hot Rods for the last few. Liked them a lot but had to get them punched probably 5-6 times.

My heal, LOCKED in place. No plans to change liners, seem a lot like the Hot Rod liners, but if there is another group Intuition buy next season, will grab a pair to try. Going to replace the power strap with a Booster.

As for the soles, I expected the touring ones to be a lot more aggresive, like any other AT boot. The ones that come on the boot seem almost like a soft plastic, and pretty thin. Really not that much different from the DIN soles, just softer and some rocker. Makes me wonder if they were meant to be designed to fit in alpine bindings, but haven't tried yet. I also would have thought the boots would come with less burly buckles, maybe similar to the ones on the G1, just to drop a little weight. But I take it these boots are designed to be a more durable type plug boot, for patrollers and trail crew, etc.

Interestingly, went to Fernie and Banff last week and nobody has them in yet. The store I shop at in Calgary(MBC) got them in over a month ago, but behemouth MEC has got them now so I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of people on them this season. Although that price, ouch, is likely to scare many of them away. I have to admit, they do seem to be built at a higher standard than most competitors except for the crappy stock footbeds and lack of anything. Very barebones plug boot. I really hope the liners hold up at that price.

Can't wait to get on them!

[Tony]

New Black Diamond AT Boots (w/ Dynafit inserts) for 2009:

- Factor (flex 130)
- Method (flex 110)
- Shiva (women's model)

Features include:

- LINER: will be usable right out of the box, truly lasted and have strobel-construction, meaning that the sole liner will be a separate piece from the rest of the upper. Will also have a BOA type lacing system that could be nice when wearing them around camp.
- FIT: rumored to be somewhere in between Scarpa and Garmont (what the hell this means, I don't know).
- DESIGN: NONE of the boots will have a traditional AT style tongue. Instead, Black Diamond has designed their boots based on an alpine-type shell with an overlapping cuff. Walk-mode with 33 degrees of movement in the cuff.

Found this info in: http://www.tetonat.com/?p=317#comments

[altasnowbirdripper]

New Black Diamond AT Boots (w/ Dynafit inserts) for 2009:

- Factor (flex 130)
- Method (flex 110)
- Shiva (women's model)

Features include:

- LINER: will be usable right out of the box, truly lasted and have strobel-construction, meaning that the sole liner will be a separate piece from the rest of the upper. Will also have a BOA type lacing system that could be nice when wearing them around camp.
- FIT: rumored to be somewhere in between Scarpa and Garmont (what the hell this means, I don't know).
- DESIGN: NONE of the boots will have a traditional AT style tongue. Instead, Black Diamond has designed their boots based on an alpine-type shell with an overlapping cuff. Walk-mode with 33 degrees of movement in the cuff.

Found this info in: http://www.tetonat.com/?p=317#comments

Wow - good stuff! I am so glad to FINALLY see touring boots getting burlier! I am anxious to try a pair of Factors!

[Jax]

...the sole liner will be a separate piece from the rest of the upper.

Sounds similar to the new liner in the Axon, which also boasts a separate piece for the sole. All of our liners will be taking this approach moving forward.

Check out Lou Dawson's website for a great review on on the Axon, including some comments by Paul Parker for further clarification.

Sounds like exciting stuff coming from BD, and this is nothing but good news for the ski community as a whole. More options may mean more competition, but also more options=more progression in AT boot technology and design. Keeps us on our toes, eh? Also, more boots to fit more types of feet is always a good thing.

[LeeLau]

Here's the text of the BD press release about the boots. I look forward to getting a pair and testing them in early 2008

Black Diamond Freeride Ski Boots set to launch Fall 2008

November 1, 2007 (Salt Lake City, Utah) – Black Diamond Equipment Ltd., a global leader in the climbing and freeride ski markets, announced the timeline and product mix for its much anticipated ski boot line set to debut for Fall 2008.

“We just completed Boot Camp with our North American reps, the BD Boot team and European management and are excited for the snow to fall and get the boots out on retailer’s feet on the hill,” states Thomas Laakso, Ski Category Group Director. “Skiing has changed dramatically in the past few years and being able to build boots from the ground up with state of the art technologies and a modern skier’s perspective has enabled us to meet the exacting needs of the boundary–free skier.”

The BD Boot program reprises the award-winning launch of the Fall 2007 ski line and will be aimed at the emerging market that demands full-time, high performance combined with unbounded access in a single pair of boots. The boots blend alpine-inspired technologies with backcountry functionality that is synced up with BD’s Efficient Power technology platform, an integral part of their Freeride Ski line.

“Skiing is all about the down,” explains Laakso. “Our alpine touring (AT) and telemark boots have design elements that are both power and efficiency based so consumers may choose the model that best fits their personal style while maximizing their downhill control. All our boots are focused on uncompromising performance which means exceptional fits, true alpine progressive flexes and ultimate hiking access to the goods.”

BD will debut three AT models in the Power Series – the paradigm breaking, four-buckle Factor, a softer flexing Method and the Women’s Shiva. Each boot blends alpine overlap construction with lightweight touring functionality combining the performance an alpine skier demands while providing a highly articulated walk mode for access to the backcountry.

On the telemark side, BD will break out with two collections geared around its Power and Efficiency platforms. The Power Series is built around the Custom, Push and Women’s Stiletto. All three boots raise the bar with progressive flex, torsional power, and alpine inspired fit technologies. The Efficient series adds the Seeker, Women’s Trance and Axis blending smooth, predictable bellows with high torsional stiffness in a lightweight versatile package.

All boots introduce solutions for achieving a proper and comfortable fit, with modern engineered lasts, unique and customizable boot boards, strobled and true lasted liner constructions, stock custom thermoformable foot beds and an exclusive Boa closure system that enables fit and performance advantages.

“As the largest, most expensive, complex development project we’ve ever undertaken, it’s hard to contain my enthusiasm about these boots,” adds Peter Metcalf CEO of Black Diamond. “They represent the best of BD today, exemplifying our design philosophy in terms of innovative product. BD Boots will fully meet the demands of today’s freeride skier. We set out to build a better boot for the skier who wants one boot to rip all terrain and our design team has delivered.”

[Tony]

So we got Gotama skis, Shaman boots, Mantra skis, Shiva boots, Karma skis....

Skiing is becoming a very spiritual experience for some people....

[LeeLau]

I know - who picks these names? Wait for the Lululemon line of boots

[Tony]

Not a devoted Catholic, for sure.....

[laseranimal]

with the new NTN boots being dynafit compatible someone got come out with a binding that uses NTN but yet allows for you to lock the heel

they could call it the "reformation"

[leBig]

How about Dynafit Zzero 4U-MF/TF with PU shell? Anyone has experiences or opinions of it ?
Dynafit web site says it is the most downhill-oriented boot in Zzero series...

[Bullet]

New Black Diamond AT Boots (w/ Dynafit inserts) for 2009:

- Factor (flex 130)
- Method (flex 110)
- Shiva (women's model)

Features include:

- LINER: will be usable right out of the box, truly lasted and have strobel-construction, meaning that the sole liner will be a separate piece from the rest of the upper. Will also have a BOA type lacing system that could be nice when wearing them around camp.
- FIT: rumored to be somewhere in between Scarpa and Garmont (what the hell this means, I don't know).
- DESIGN: NONE of the boots will have a traditional AT style tongue. Instead, Black Diamond has designed their boots based on an alpine-type shell with an overlapping cuff. Walk-mode with 33 degrees of movement in the cuff.

Found this info in: http://www.tetonat.com/?p=317#comments

I'm glad I saw this. I'll squeak one more year out of my current boots to see if BD delivers.

This thread needs to be a sticky.

[altasnowbirdripper]

If anyone has photos gets a chance to see a proto, PLEASE get photos! They sound super sick & I am anxious to see what they look like! So stoked on these boots!

[nhtele]

Skied my Garmont Axons out of the box last night @ Snowking. I guess I was hoping that a boot costing $650 (Thanks TP!) would not need absurd amounts of customization just to be skiable. The cost of my mods will be on the order of $350 retail - meaning a total price tag of ~$1200USD for the person trying to put together a skiable boot off the shelf. I mean fuck, is Garmont really that out to lunch?

Temps were around -10F and I hiked/skied 1 lap on firm groomers. Initial impressions include a tongue that is way too soft and cut too low, a total POS liner, and insufficient forward stifness. Lateral stiffness is good, and so is ankle/heel retention. However, these boots ski worse overall out of the box than do my modded Spirit 3's.

Tomorrow the boots will receive: Booster straps, Intuition Power wrap liners, custom footbeds, and a tongue from either Kryptons or Tornados. I will report back Monday eve with secondary impressions.

[Core Shot]

Ouch, that sucks. I noticed the thread bump, and was hoping it was Axon related.

How can they be so heavy, and yet so soft in forward flex?? This was supposed to be the big bertha of dynafit boots?

Tony, thanks for the update on BDel 2009, but I cant see an AT boot actually having Flex 130.
Hell, I would be happy to see Flex 90 or 100 in AT.

I have the Zzero 4Carbon, and will now keep them with a few mods. Stiffer tongue, intuition alpine powerwrap liners, and a boot punch. Sounds like the best bet until next year. Thanks.

[laseranimal]

looks like I made the right call going with the Aero Freeride from STP vs trying to score a pair of Axons

all I needed to mod was booster straps, punch the big toes, and reduce the forward lean

total cost: $40

which makes the total price of the boot $345 since I got them during one of the % off + free ship sales


Overall I'm pretty happy with the boot, paired with dynafits it tours pretty damn well for such a big, heavy boot

I've done a couple of short sidecountry laps with Dukes and Aero's and while it still tours ok its a pretty heavy setup


Pretty sad if the Axon is as bad as nhtele says,

[laseranimal]

just a bump from page 2

I've thrown up an updated review of the Aero Fr's on my blog

http://laseranimal.blogspot.com/2007...ts-update.html

[steved]

Those Aeros look about what my modded Endorphin lower shells now look like(WOOOOHOOO!;-)), only a ~95 in forward flex...but pretty good for me.
Lee Lau/others...the other nice part is that my Dynafit Zzero liners that I DID order...arrived..and they are heads & tails above anything I've been skiing in...not to mentioned walking in..(are as nice as they appeared/felt to be when trying on the Zzero). Nice & firm but thinner and more of the alpine design than the Scarpa liners, which are the standard? Intuitions? Really well made and warm. Needed just a little more forefoot shell heatup & stretch... Ready to go for Xmas day....ready for the frozen granular...

[nhtele]

Mods described above made for much better skiing. Skied Teton Pass and inbounds @ Ghee. More to follow...

[nhtele]

These now ski about 90% as well as my Krypton Pros - that's pretty damn good for a dynafit boot. I've skied them both lift-served and BC, with Comforts and Coombas.