AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

**verbier61** · 10-26-2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Idris

The spirit 4 and Tornado are the same plastic - PU, the spirit 3 is Pebax, hence it's softer and lighter.

uh... are you sure, Tom?
according to scarpa's web site, all their boots are in pebax, some has just a bit of PU inserts.... I'm confused

**pechelman** · 10-26-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

So - just to be clear - not a knock on you. Just more discussion then anything else.

didnt think you were

discussing just as well
felt it was worthwhile to also list all the "variables" in the guideline tony's put together. ie, me being a crackhead etc etc

**Pierre LeCouloir** · 10-26-2007, 09:46 AM

The wisdom of crowds . . . even with the lingering disagreements, the list seems to be converging on a midpoint between the various reviews out there of this season's new boots. This is extremely handy. Thanks to those of you who have been active in applying your experience to hone this sucker.

**altasnowbirdripper** · 10-26-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by pechelman

well i will say that boot flexes from manufacturers are very subjective

My gf's little bro has a pair of xwave 6's that are the same size as mine and Ive tried his on in comparison to the freeride aeros and they honestly feel very similar. If anything, the xwave 6 is a tad stiffer due to a higher cuff.
These xwave models are from the same year as well, 03/04 I beleive. (the all black models)

I did grind the tabs off because I didnt like the brick wall id flex into, nor did I like what the rest of the shell did when it hit those flex limiter tabs. When I did have the tabs, I do remember the boot feeling a bit stiffer, but only maybe up to say a 70 or so on solly's scale.

This is just my experience, so take it for what its worth.
My experience, however, does agree with your relative location and stiffness of each boot.

having said all of this, even without those tabs, I feel the boot is more than stiff enough for any descent, and definitely not the limiting factor.

edit: for reference, and not sure if it matters too much, im referring to 27 mondo shells, stock liners (thermo in the fraero), and Im 5'10 170.

edit2: I have tried on a pair of lange wc130s? or 120?, I forget, and it was a very stiff boot, but honestly, I would guess it would only be a couple indicies above a solly 80. Also worth mentioning, which could be effecting my judgement, is that the solly boots Ive tried on all have a very upright cuff position, possibly making it feel stiffer than it actually is, especially in comparison to the extreme forward lean on stock FR Aeros and on Lange boots.

I totally agree! I tried on a 08 Lange WC 120 and it was a lot softer than I expected. More around a Salomon X-Wave or Falcon 10. I bought the WC 130 and would say it is on par with Salomon Course & Falcon race - 120 & Tenica Diablo 130 & - Nordica Doberman 130's. As for At boots they do vary quite a bit - the stiffest I have tried is the Endorphin and would say it feels around a 85-90 or so in flex.

**Goatboy** · 10-26-2007, 02:41 PM

My Tornado Pros have got some PU inserts in the sides of the cuffs, guess this makes them stiffer laterally than the Spirit 4. Otherwise, the shells appear to be identical. BUT, the front buckles are mounted quite differently. The setup on the Tornado distributes pressure better, and makes for a better fit IMHO. Tornado buckles are also mounted outwards, like an alpine boot. This has caused me some accidental opening when bootpacking, but that's no big deal. Them's great boots, and will be even better when the new, less slippery soles are available

I dont think they are much stiffer forwardly than my old blue Denali XTs, maybe more progressive? About 85 flex with booster straps cranked tight??

**laseranimal** · 10-26-2007, 02:53 PM

this list is really looking good, I just splurged for a pair of Freeride Aeros which should be here Tuesday, I can't wait to see if its actually as stiff as its reported to be

**LeeLau** · 10-26-2007, 06:34 PM

yah - great collaborative effort to a really subjective arcane obscure topic. Nicely done all

**nhtele** · 10-27-2007, 01:43 AM

One of the bonuses of being injured: I get to ride the fence between the axon and zzero 4 cf until more reviews become available.

The CF saves 670g over the axon, but maybe the axon will ski better, esp with the greater cuff height?

**OzDave** · 10-28-2007, 09:46 PM

I think Ive been through every entry so it safe to ask this.

Has anybody got a flex comparison on the Tornado using the softer tongue?

Dave

**laseranimal** · 10-28-2007, 10:48 PM

my guess is 80 since thats what the spirit 4 is with the softer green tongue

**bend BC** · 10-30-2007, 02:13 PM

Dynafit TLT 700 way stiffer the my lange freride 80, u can flex both boots and see this easly

**Ireallyliketoski2** · 10-30-2007, 04:54 PM

Great thread, I had the TLT 700's for about 4 years and just recently replaced them with a pair of the Aero Speed (sierratrading post has them for $350) as it seemed to be about the same boot as the 700 which I couldn't find any more. I like boots that fit and are comfortable to walk\tour\climb in, as that's what I seem to spend most of my day doing. The downhill part is always over so quick.

**laseranimal** · 10-30-2007, 05:15 PM

I've been pretty adamant that the TLT 700 is too low on the flex scale

I'd peg it at 75 but no higher then 80, I also picked up a pair of Aero Freerides from STP and had both boots on tonight for comparison's sake

the TLT 700 stands up pretty well next to the 4 buckle Aero

You can tell which is which, but its pretty close, closer then the difference between the TLT and the F1

I'll stand by my earlier assertion that the TLT 700 is on the same footing as the Struktura Evo

**Tony** · 10-31-2007, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by laseranimal

I dunno I think the dynafit 700 is WAY stiffer then the F1. Its not as stiff as a Struktura or Denali but its a lot closer to those two then it is to the F1

I'd say stiffer then a laser/matrix and softer then a spirit 3

So....softer or stiffer than Spirit 3? Maybe similar?

**Jax** · 10-31-2007, 12:58 PM

Are all of these flex ratings and comparisons based on trying them on in a warm store, or from on-mountain experience, or a combo of both? IMO boot flex of the same boot varies greatly based on just those two factors alone. I'm just curious if the general (ie., in store or on snow) temp factor is taken into consideration during these evaluations. Pebax, PU, and polymer blends all react and undergo flex changes once put on-snow, some greater, some lesser than others.

**LeeLau** · 10-31-2007, 01:01 PM

Mine are based on on-snow experience. It never got that cold when I had them - temperatures ranged from just below freezing to plus 10 degrees C.

**laseranimal** · 10-31-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

So....softer or stiffer than Spirit 3? Maybe similar?

never tried the spirit 3 but I'd venture a guess that it'd be similar

I've done a bit of digging on the TLT and it seems like for its time period people who wanted a burly dynafit compatable boot were going with either the TLT 700 or the Megaride

**wilcox510** · 10-31-2007, 03:30 PM

Random thoughts...We always seem to focus on the forward flex (stiffness), partially because it is by far the easiest to test (particularly in the store). My Megarides have very stiff tongues in them, to the point the are almost too stiff in forward flex. However, I often wonder if part of my problem with them is that they are laterally softer than I’d like. I’ve been playing around with the green Zzeros, and they are softer in forward flex than my Megarides, but the cuff on the Zzeros certainly feels much stiffer than my Megarides (stiffer laterally and rearward). Hard to tell for sure without skiing them. My point or question is, I wonder if many people (including myself) put too much emphasis on the forward flex of boots, when a stiffer lateral flex would actually be just as or more beneficial?

**laseranimal** · 10-31-2007, 05:29 PM

I was JUST thinking that when I had the Aero FR and TLT 700 on

Initially the 700 felt stiffer fore and aft then the Aero and I was a little miffed that the "burly" Aero wasn't as stiff as the 700

but I'm sure the Aero is much more laterally stiff then the 700

**couloirman** · 10-31-2007, 05:56 PM

I guess Im torn. My backcountry quiver right now is:

Lotus 138/Dukes
189 Squads/Dukes
179 stiff Bros/nx21(but might swap out for dynafits)

Right now I have 3 year old Denalis which Ive loved but are a little bit soft for something like a squad. The spirit 4 with the stiffer tongue would be nice so I could switch to dynafits on my short bros for extra long days, but Im just not sure they are an ok boot for a ski as stiff as the squad. Anyone have any suggestions for what I should do.

I guess Im torn between tornado pro, spirit 4, or some other dynafit compatible(if possible) stiff touring boot.

**LeeLau** · 11-01-2007, 11:46 AM

New Garmont boot - Garmont Axon. Heavy! Pricy! but looks stiff

http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Gear/Garmont-Axon

http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=938

Rumored here before - http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=96804

**Tony** · 11-01-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

Unfortunately, the stiffest boot in the market with Dynafit compatibility still is....the heavy Aero Freeride.

Hmmmm....guess not.

The stiffness of the Endorphine, the fit of the Megaride and the Dynafit compatibility of the ZZeros/Spirit 4/Aero Freeride.

Gentlemen....probably.....THIS IS IT.

The perfect Freerando boot? At least for skinny feet that don't fit the Aero? Maybe not, it doesn't have the interchangeable DIN outsoles. Has it?

Of course, it also weights 2+ pounds than a Matrix. But it should, it's a different tool.

Added with Endo and Aero Freeride for flex.

**cmsummit** · 11-04-2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Atomicgray

Anyone else ski this boot ? Crispi-Diablo Free Ride - Around a 110 Flex - Skis great and drives big fat skis just fine - Weight 1700 grams and a super plush heat moldable thermo liner.

Can anybody else comment on the Crispi Diablo Free Ride? Seems like it has a nice, high cuff. Where would it fit on the AT stiffness scale. Adrenaline stiff? How's the overall fit?

Thanks.