AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

**Idris** · 05-10-2007, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by skinnyskier

The Spirit series and the Tornados seem to be molded in a very similar way, with differences in color, tongues, buckles and soles. Does Scarpa use a slightly stiffer/thicker plastic in the Tornado, or is the difference just cosmetic? I get better foot hold from the fourth buckle in my Tornados compared to my Spirit 3s, and the black tongue is stiffer, but I have no idea if they're stiffer laterally.

The spirit 4 and Tornado are the same plastic - PU, the spirit 3 is Pebax, hence it's softer and lighter.

Acording to local shops (Cham) and messing with my buddies boots. The Tornado is no stiffer than my Spirit 4's, just more alpine binding freindly. It is missing the Dynafit fitings and the sole is not so hot for scrambling. It is much more popular here because it hit the streets a year earlier.

**Jonathan S.** · 05-10-2007, 07:55 PM

Spirit 3 vs. 4 comparison (from rando racer Steve Romeo) posted here:
http://www.tetonat.com/?p=151
(Over a month old, so sorry if everyone has seen this before, but I hadn't noticed at first when it was posted.)

**LeeLau** · 05-10-2007, 08:09 PM

FYI - next years Tornado will have a full vibram sole option

EDIT: Thanks to Idris and Jon for the Spirit 3/4 comparisons. I hadn't intended testing the Spirit 3s so that is useful information

**Tony** · 05-11-2007, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

FYI - next years Tornado will have a full vibram sole option

Don't they currently have a Vibram sole? I think the model's name is Ride, which is good for both alpine and AT bindings.

**jrosendahl** · 05-11-2007, 10:18 AM

The tornado sole I saw has a hard plastic center probaly to prevent unfriendly interactions between that and any AFD.

**skinnyskier** · 05-11-2007, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

FYI - next years Tornado will have a full vibram sole option

EDIT: Thanks to Idris and Jon for the Spirit 3/4 comparisons. I hadn't intended testing the Spirit 3s so that is useful information

Lee- do you mean an interchangable sole like the Garmont Adrenaline?

**DJMingus** · 05-11-2007, 02:17 PM

I wish they'd all put a hard AFD-compatible section in the sole. The difference in sideways slop between my Adrenalines and my XWaves in the NX21s is HUGE. It is all caused by the poor interface between the sole lugs and the sliding AFD.

**jrosendahl** · 05-11-2007, 02:36 PM

Yea that's what I want a big hard slippery part right under my toes when I am scrambling up slippery rocks, that would be especially fun on exposed knife ridges.

Oh wait - that would like totaly suck never mind.

**DJMingus** · 05-11-2007, 03:14 PM

The AFD zone is a very small area. Besides, all it would take would be a minor effort to arrange the lugs properly. It wouldn't have to be a flat rectangle, nor plastic.

**LeeLau** · 05-11-2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by skinnyskier

Lee- do you mean an interchangable sole like the Garmont Adrenaline?

Yes - sorry I wasn't clear. The present Tornado has a hard flat section on the bootsole under the AFD. The version next year has an interchangeable sole option like the Adrenaline

**LeeLau** · 05-16-2007, 11:45 PM

Review of the Dynafit Zzero 4 and 3 is here - http://www.doglotion.com/touring-boot-review-dynafit

**laseranimal** · 08-21-2007, 08:32 PM

ka bump

**Wiilbert** · 09-26-2007, 08:10 PM

Another bump for those that don't want to spend time searching (like me). Seeing as how we have a ski weight thread stickied, how aboot giving this a sticky too?

**LeeLau** · 10-23-2007, 03:50 PM

I've skied the Scarpa F3 and can confirm its flex at 60.

**laseranimal** · 10-23-2007, 05:23 PM

any other thoughts on the F3?

**pechelman** · 10-23-2007, 05:35 PM

where does the dynafit 4 buckle zzero px fit into things?
1 step below the CF?

lateral vs forward flex differences?

**LeeLau** · 10-23-2007, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by laseranimal

any other thoughts on the F3?

It's not for me. I've heard finesse skiers can get away with it in challenging terrain or conditions. You have to stay very centred to ski it well and I'm not good enough and need the support of at least a Mega Ride.

It didn't feel like it was a big advantage touring on flats or uphill but that's more my "feel" then anything else. It did feel pretty good bootpacking up steep slopes; that flexy toe seems to grip really well on rock and loose snow.

I haven't had any time on a F1 to make a comparison. I did try to fit into an 06 F1 but it didn't fit me at all. Curiously, the F3 fit much nicer. Mind you, the 06 F1 had a stock Scarpa liner while the F3 has the much better constructed Intuition liner.

I'll write a better review with pictures in a bit.

pechelman - I've not had a chance to try out the other Dynafit boots.

**cj001f** · 10-23-2007, 05:44 PM

So, consensus from the gurus finds the Endorphin being stiffer than the Adrenalin but not substantially so.

**pechelman** · 10-23-2007, 10:18 PM

in my experience over the past season with the freeride aero and tonight with the Zzero CF, is that the aeros even with the flex wings ground off were stiffer than the CF's.

Id put the stock aeros at 80, and without the flex limiters, closer to 65-70.
Id then put the CFs around 70, definitely no more than 75, of course this is in the store only.

Id then place the PX's at about 60-65. (in store only again)

see this review
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=99057

edit: disregard first edit (which was overwritten by this edit) because i thought i read someone put the fr aero at 95

edit2: also
Since the scale and i dont totally agree, its worth noting that I also felt the PX boots were stiffer than a stock megaride and a scarpa spirit 3.
I felt those 2 boots were about the same, and the PX maybe about 7-10 points higher on the scale.

**Tony** · 10-25-2007, 05:01 PM

Updated with Pechelman's input on CF & PX vs. Aero Freeride.

I wish someday this will be a sticky so it would be easier to dig up for updates.

**LeeLau** · 10-25-2007, 06:23 PM

Now I know pechelman is the mayor of techtalk - insert smily winky thing - but I think that there is no way that the Dynafit CF is less stiff then even the Scarpa Spirit 4 with Tornado tongue. IMO the only way to experience the stiffness of the Dynafit CF is to ski it. So I have to respectfully disagree with pechelman's stiffness assessment of the Dynafit CF and stick with mine.

**pechelman** · 10-25-2007, 07:53 PM

i never compared it to the spirit 4
never been in one

in my experience with a spirit 3, the CF if much much stiffer
was the CF much stiffer than the PX?
no, not really. 5-10 index points

like i said, i dont agree with everything on the scale on the first post
but at least its putting things relatively close to where one can get a general idea. i think tony would agree this isnt a firm, hard proven list of flexes, but just a good guideline when trying to find the right stiffness boot.

my general feeling is that a lot of the boots are rated too highly on that scale
or
maybe im a crackhead and i think boots are softer than they are
or
my frame of reference for solly rated 70 and 90 boots is different than other peoples frame of reference with other brands

or
all of the above

**truth** · 10-25-2007, 08:32 PM

Great stuff in here folks...nice work.

**LeeLau** · 10-26-2007, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by pechelman

i never compared it to the spirit 4
never been in one

in my experience with a spirit 3, the CF if much much stiffer
was the CF much stiffer than the PX?
no, not really. 5-10 index points

like i said, i dont agree with everything on the scale on the first post
but at least its putting things relatively close to where one can get a general idea. i think tony would agree this isnt a firm, hard proven list of flexes, but just a good guideline when trying to find the right stiffness boot.

my general feeling is that a lot of the boots are rated too highly on that scale
or
maybe im a crackhead and i think boots are softer than they are
or
my frame of reference for solly rated 70 and 90 boots is different than other peoples frame of reference with other brands

or
all of the above

no - you're absolutely right pechelman. I didn't state it clearly. I'm comparing the CF 4's flex to the Spirit 4s flex because according to the scale on page 1 they're now rated relative to the other. I agree that you never compared the Spirit 4 to the Dynafit boot

I definitely see that I am rating boots higher on the scale RELATIVE to the benchmark Solly boot then you are. But then this is a pretty subjective list and i guess we all expected a bit of that to happen.

So - just to be clear - not a knock on you. Just more discussion then anything else.

**Tony** · 10-26-2007, 05:39 AM

Guys, NOW I am sure you agree the list is not perfect. It's just a guideline, and mostly for AT jongs that don't have a clue. Which in this case will make it relatively worthy for experienced AT mags like Upallnight, Leelau, etc. that are already in their fifth pair of AT boots.

You need to understand that sometimes I can't comply with everybody's wishes. I need to compromise. I have tried (not skied) a Dynafit CF 4 in a shop recently and have skied both a Spirit 4 (w/black tongue) and an Aero Freeride last season. My preliminary conclusions were:

- The Aero seemed stiffer than the CF 4.
- The Spirit 4 with black tongue seemed tad stiffer than CF4, but only in terms of forward flex. Laterally, they both seemed as stiff.

I know this is not highly scientific. But it seems that we agree that Aero Freeride is stiffer than both the CF 4 and Spirit 4.

LIST UPDATE: Upgraded the Aero Freeride to Endorphin stiffness and CF4 to Spirit 4 w/ black tongue.

Unfortunately, the stiffest boot in the market with Dynafit compatibility still is....the heavy Aero Freeride.

NOTE: I don't even own Solly alpine boots. I am a Lange guy but IMO usually above 90 flex, all the top alpine boots flex ratings tend to coincide. With a few outliers, of course.