AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

[Core Shot]

Does the Shaman count? Doesn't look like it has a walk lever?
If you put a rando sole on an alpine boot, does it automagically become an AT boot?

Nothing on the garmont site (althogh they are making an alpine racing boot - the G1), but there's a pic here:


http://www.telemarktribe.com/it/inde...=400&Itemid=54

website translated:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...&hl=en&ie=UTF8


Scarpa Hurricane looks burly-as-fuck.



- - Has anyone tried the Scarpa Terminator (NTN Tele with AT) with the heel locked down??? I know many have tele-demoed it, but has anyone been able to shove it in an AT binding and at least shop flexed it??

[Tony]

In the wise words of Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, both boots seem "to be a rock and not to roll"

[dk_alaskan]

I looked on here for info on the Dynafit TLT 4 Tourlite (3 buckle), but couldn't find much. How stiff are they truly? I am trying to compare them to my lowa struktura lights. I am 6'3" about 225-235 depending on the time of the season and an aggresive skier. However, these would most likely be for moderate to low pitched runs--more for all around touring than alpine performance, but would like some performance (not looking for a lace up style at boot).

[Jonathan S.]

When your inquiry popped up in a new post email, I was just about to leave to go skin up a local closed ski area in my 3-buckle Dynafit TLT4 Evo boots.
Are they as stiff as my Matrix (even with the original tongues)? No, not even in the same class. Would I use them for extensive lift-served. No way!
But with the upper buckle cranked all the way and the power strap cinched tight, they are definitely skiable. And for the terrain you describe, definitely worth considering. (I also like the way that the power strap & rear spoiler can be easily removed while skinning - the unimpeded stride is excellent!)

[schindlerpiste]

Today, was my 1st day on Tornado Pros (white tounges). They rule. After being cooked, they fit like slippers. Comfy when walking and skiing. No real compromise powering my Titan 9s. It's my first experience with touring boots, but the short term review is +

[dk_alaskan]

I also like the way that the power strap & rear spoiler can be easily removed while skinning - the unimpeded stride is excellent!

How much does the rear spoiler generally cost? I am looking at getting a pair w/o the spoiler and strap.

[Jonathan S.]

The rear spoiler and velcro strap are included with the current version.
Much earlier versions of the TLT4 (with the kind of mini buckle near the front of the foot) lacked any rear spoiler or velcro strap -- these are often available used very cheaply on eBay, etc.

[corn dog]

I'll send you a pair of the spoilers if you like, I don't use them. Can't remember if the non-spoiler boots still have the slot, I'd guess they do.
Shit, I might have taken of some chunks off with a pocket knife, anyways, I'll take a look next time I'm in the garage.

[laseranimal]

bump in the hopes of adding a sticky

pretty please

[LeeLau]

I just re-read this thread and thought I should add these data points after having had 2 full days on the ZZERO CF 4 buckle

I have had one full day on the ZZERO CF 3 buckle.

I'll put some time on the Spirit 4 and hopefully the F3 and will add data when I get that.

I have also added data for a Garmont Mega Ride with Scarpa Tornado tongue.

All my additions below:

ZZERO CF - 4 buckle - 100

ZZERO CF - 3 buckle - 75

Garmont Megaride (scarpa tornado tongue) - 80


Tony's list follows

THE LIST (from stiffest to softest)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

120 - Garmont Shamen (?)

110 - Garmont Astral (?)

90 - Garmont Endorphin, Scarpa Hurricane (?), Dynafit Zzero 4C (?)

85 - Scarpa Tornado/Pro (black tongue), Garmont Adrenaline, Dynafit Aero Freeride (4-buckle), Salomon Ellipse e2

80 - Scarpa Denali XT/TT, Scarpa Spirit 4, Lowa Struktura Rodeo/Pro (?)

75 - Scarpa Spirit 3, Garmont Megaride/G-Ride, Lowa Struktura Evo, Dynafit Aero Speed (3-buckle), Dyanfit Zzero 3C (?)

70 - Scarpa Matrix, Old Scarpa Denali (4-buckle red shell), Dynafit TLT 700

60 - Scarpa Laser, Garmont Dynamite, Dynafit TLT 500 (2-buckle + strap), Scarpa F3 (?)

50 - Scarpa F1, Garmont Megalite, Dynafit TLT 4 Evo (3-buckle), Dynafit TLT 4 Lite (2-buckle + strap), Dynafit Zzero 2C (?)

40 - Scarpa F1 Race (2-buckle, no strap), Dynafit TLT Race Pro (1-buckle + strap)

[wilcox510]

LeeLau - how about a bit more info on the Zzero CF 4? Other than the obvious flex ratings you gave, how did it compare to your Megarides (fit, weight, the new liner etc)?

[LeeLau]

wilcox - I'm writing a review as we speak. Will have pictures, comparatives vs Spirit 4 and the modded Mega Rides etc. There are two different Dynafit liners also. All I can say for now is that they actually lived up to the hype

[wilcox510]

- looks like I'll be buying new boots next fall. Looking forward to the review.

[Tony]

Updated with Lee Lau's comments on new Dynafit Zzero Carbon Fiber boots.

[marshalolson]

those garmont shaman are not at boots IMHO. they are basically a softened plug boot (the g1) with a removable vibram sole. that would be like calling a salomon pro-model or lange FR an AT boot if you screwed vibram to it.

super sweet boots, an pretty light b/c they are pebax, but not an AT boot.

[Atomicgray]

Anyone else ski this boot ? Crispi-Diablo Free Ride - Around a 110 Flex - Skis great and drives big fat skis just fine - Weight 1700 grams and a super plush heat moldable thermo liner.

[Tony]

those garmont shaman are not at boots IMHO. they are basically a softened plug boot (the g1) with a removable vibram sole. that would be like calling a salomon pro-model or lange FR an AT boot if you screwed vibram to it.

super sweet boots, an pretty light b/c they are pebax, but not an AT boot.

Certainly they are at the heavy/stiff end of the so called "Freerando" spectrum. Opposite from the cheese-grating F1s that Verbier put on the Mezzalama thread. I wouldn't want to tour on those either. But still they belong to the touring universe, albeit on the extremes of it.

Those Crispi look sort of heavy/stiff too.

Now, it would be certainly nice that Lange would make the Freeride 120 with a Vibram sole and adjustable walk/ski mode. I would instantly buy a pair for my skeleton skinny feet.

[jrosendahl]

I don't think Marshal was talking about weight or stiffness.

1) AT boot needs 2 things to qualify as and AT boot- ski/walk mode and a rubberised sole.

2) The Shaman does not appear to have a ski/walk switch.

Therefore: the Shaman should not be considered to be an AT boot.


(I want those Langes too (w/ dynafit plugs))

[LeeLau]

I've now had 2 days on the Scarpa Spirit 4 with the stock touring tongue and will confirm stiffness at 80.

I'm going to try skiing them with the Scarpa Tornado tongue and will check back in with my impressions.

[Tony]

1) AT boot needs 2 things to qualify as and AT boot- ski/walk mode and a rubberised sole.

2) The Shaman does not appear to have a ski/walk switch.

Therefore: the Shaman should not be considered to be an AT boot.

I think AT boots also need to comply with a third pre-requisite: rockered soles. Nevertheless, some of the new Freerando boots don't have these either (eg. Tornado). I realize the Shamans don't have a ski/walk mode either, that's why I labeled it a Freerando/sidecountry boot in my previous post.

Nevertheless, the main obective of this list is to give AT jongs a pseudo stiffness chart to avoid the 10,000 threads asking "how stiff is such and such boot compared to XYZ?". Considering:

1) The Shaman has not been released yet, no one have test it and posted about its touring capabilities (hence the question mark) and,

2) Some (heavy/fat) people might consider it as sidecountry or single-day off piste boot,

I believe they should remain on the list (albeit at the very extreme of it), with the drilled-out F1s for 110 lbs. euros with off-the-chart VO2 max's on the other extreme.

OTOH, I'd personally never use the Shaman for extensive touring use. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't use anything heavier/stiffer than my modified Matrix (Denali tongue and Booster strap) for multi-day touring.

[laseranimal]

Anyone else ski this boot ? Crispi-Diablo Free Ride - Around a 110 Flex - Skis great and drives big fat skis just fine - Weight 1700 grams and a super plush heat moldable thermo liner.

if you can bring him out of hiding I think Stormchaser has a pair of them, I think he put an alpine liner in them and thought they were pretty good

[LeeLau]

I,ve had two days on the Spirit 4s with green touring tongue. Had 1 day with Spirit 4s with black/Tornado tongue (presumably the Scarpa Tornado black tongue is the same as the Spirit 4 black tongue.) Also had one day on my own pair of Garmont Megarides with black Tornado tongue and new Intuition liners.

Here's my changes to Tony's list. Note that I am downgrading the Dynafit ZZero 4 to a 95. Reason, I was in awe of its stiffness. Now that I've skied a Spirit 4 with stiff/black tongue I realize that this year's crop of boots have come a long way so I misjudged the stiffness of the Dynafit Zzero 4.

The Intuition liners are a revelation. My Megarides with G-fit liners were so soft they needed a black Tornado tongue to be skiable with big pack and big skis. Now with Intuition liners, I have to put back the stock Garmont soft tongue otherwise there is insufficient forward flex for touring stride. My additions reflect the high modifiability of the MegaRide.

My changes in bold

120 - Garmont Shamen (?)

110 - Garmont Astral (?)

100 - Scarpa Hurricane (?)

95 - Dynafit Zzero CF 4-buckle

90 - Garmont Endorphin

85 - Scarpa Tornado/Pro (black tongue), Garmont Adrenaline, Dynafit Aero Freeride (4-buckle), Salomon Ellipse e2. Scarpa Spirit 4 with black tongue. Garmont Megaride with Tornado or Raichle medium flex tongue and intuition liner

80 - Scarpa Denali XT/TT, Scarpa Spirit 4 with touring tongue, Lowa Struktura Rodeo/Pro (?). Garmont Megaride with Tornado or Raichle medium flex tongue and stock liner.

75 - Scarpa Spirit 3, Stock Garmont Megaride/G-Ride, Lowa Struktura Evo, Dynafit Aero Speed (3-buckle), Dyanfit Zzero CF 3-buckle

70 - Scarpa Matrix, Old Scarpa Denali (4-buckle red shell), Dynafit TLT 700

60 - Scarpa Laser, Garmont Dynamite, Dynafit TLT 500 (2-buckle + strap), Scarpa F3 (?)

[Tony]

LeeLau, thanks for the reviews. Some issues though:

1) Have you skied the Garmont Endorphin? Reason I'm asking is to support the fact that Zzero CF4 is stiffer than the Endorphin. Its clear from your perception that it is indeed stiffer than the Spirit 4, specially with the Tornado tongue.

2) Hard to believe the Spirit 4 with black tongue is as stiff as the Tornado. Even with the same tongue the Tornado seems to be more laterally stiff. Comments?

3) I tend to believe that the list will be more useful if we compare un-modified stock boots to give a more objective feeling of its feel. Most people know that mods with Flexon/Denali tongues, Intuition liners, Booster straps and spoilers will aid on stiffness and progressive flex.

So I'll guess I'll keep the Zzero CF4, Endorphin and Hurricane at 90 until more people assess that any of this three is stiffer than the other two..

[skinnyskier]

The Spirit series and the Tornados seem to be molded in a very similar way, with differences in color, tongues, buckles and soles. Does Scarpa use a slightly stiffer/thicker plastic in the Tornado, or is the difference just cosmetic? I get better foot hold from the fourth buckle in my Tornados compared to my Spirit 3s, and the black tongue is stiffer, but I have no idea if they're stiffer laterally.

[LeeLau]

Tony

I havent skied the Endorphin. There's only so many boots I can test .
The reason I put the Zzero CF4 so high is that it was at least as laterally stiff as my Atomic "Freeride" alpine boots (with plugs removed). Tested by carving hard on groomers I may add.

So I wish I could compare it to an Endorphin but I assigned the Zzero CF4 a relatively high stiffness value based on its incredible torsional rigidity. I'd say that your comment is valid.

I've only tried on a Tornado in a shop. Side by side with the Spirit 4 (black tongue) on another foot they both felt equally stiff.

LeeLau, thanks for the reviews. Some issues though:

1) Have you skied the Garmont Endorphin? Reason I'm asking is to support the fact that Zzero CF4 is stiffer than the Endorphin. Its clear from your perception that it is indeed stiffer than the Spirit 4, specially with the Tornado tongue.

2) Hard to believe the Spirit 4 with black tongue is as stiff as the Tornado. Even with the same tongue the Tornado seems to be more laterally stiff. Comments?

3) I tend to believe that the list will be more useful if we compare un-modified stock boots to give a more objective feeling of its feel. Most people know that mods with Flexon/Denali tongues, Intuition liners, Booster straps and spoilers will aid on stiffness and progressive flex.

So I'll guess I'll keep the Zzero CF4, Endorphin and Hurricane at 90 until more people assess that any of this three is stiffer than the other two..