Results 51 to 75 of 369
12-03-2006, 12:36 PM #51
In many of the stricter denominations, namely Calvinism, the use of this newfound wealth was severely limited. It was sinful to use this economic gain for the pursuit of pleasure, so it became necessary to seek alternate avenues of utilizing this wealth. Additionally, giving to the poor was not acceptable because, as logic would dictate, if the accumulation of wealth indicated divine approval, then the opposite would be true of those in need. This line of thinking ordered that poor people were in their predicament because of poor standing in the eyes of God, and were therefore unworthy of receiving gifts from those more “spiritual”. This financial quandary of where to reallocate acquired wealth was solved through the investment of the money.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but I am amazed that people think that the justification of accumulating wealth in the name of God is a new thing. It's been built into this religion for a long time, and continues to gain momentum as the avenues of making money through Christianity increase.
side note: for those that are actually interested in this topic, namely incredulous Christians, I recommend reading The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism
12-03-2006, 12:42 PM #52The Shred Pirate Roberts
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
Christianity is about loving all individuals-except homo sexuals.
12-03-2006, 12:53 PM #53
i like fluffballs style, different angle on the whole belief system of christianity, in different i mean different than the mass media consumption of christianity. Its a tough crowd here, blind belief is a tough pill to swallow, no matter how sugar coated. Interesting with your BS background and noting science take on facts. Little bit of left and right brain then. Honestly, the bible is a little too "whisper down the lane" for me, and taking literal meaning of something that is translated that many times is just mindboggling.
Everyone is entitled to thier beliefs, but you are treading in dangerous waters on this board with this subject-matter. Most of us try to stick to the tride and true;
belief in Ullr
over the shoulder blower cold smoke
burning skis does in fact bring good luck
the fattest skis imaginable
100+ day seasons
500" sesonal accumulations
DIN 35 race stock binders (cranked all the way up of course)
helicopters and jet fuel ascents
spread the stoke
share the karma
down with the fartbagsMore fucked up than a cricket in a hubcap
12-03-2006, 02:13 PM #54
Adam, do I have the wrong impression or are you intentionally trying to offend the Christian members of the forum?When in doubt, point it out.
12-03-2006, 03:09 PM #55
If you love Jesus, technically, you would be a homosexual, according to Adam's logic.
12-03-2006, 03:15 PM #56The Shred Pirate Roberts
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
No, what I meant was christians are all about love and what not, unless your gay, in which case you can't even have basic legal rights.
12-03-2006, 03:25 PM #57In drove this drunken madman and stopped on a dime! Unfortunately the dime was in Mr. Rococo's pocket!
12-03-2006, 04:32 PM #58
Your statements on free will still don't convience me. If you substittuted Freedom for free will above, then I would agree. You can oppress a person to no end, but they will still have the capacity to make choices if you grant them freedom. Sure they might be "institutionalized" as in The Shawshank Redemption, but they have the ability to make their own choices, though they may be skewed due to their past. Just because one man takes away another's freedom does not mean he strips that man of his will.
So you could compare theses sufferings for God with a terrorist strapping a bomb to themselves and sacrificing themselves in the name of their god. (I do not believe this is a truth in Islam). Couple of differences, the obvious, taking out innocent lives rather than simple being murdered for your beliefs. Secondly, these suicide bombers are years removed from Muhammad, rather than the disciples who knew an lived with Jesus. (Again, apologizes to Islam, it is a shame that it is associated with terrorism because of a few radicals). So if you knew Jesus was full of it, why then would you stick your own neck out on the line after He was dead and 'gone'? You could argue that the disciples were brainwashed like cult members, and were willing to do anything. But think about it, Jesus, their leader, is humiliated, crucified, dead and gone. Looks like the JC team lost this one, some Son of God, He couldnt even save Himself. But then Jesus rises from the dead, He comes back, He wins, He is victorious, He has triumphed over death. Turns out He wasn't crazy, everything the disciples had been taught was truth. They then went out to tell everybody the good news no matter what the cost, because they wanted to share God's love and salvation, and they know that no matter what pain they must endure on this earth, they will be with God in the end.
As far as gathering riches, definitely not a new idea. Matthew 19:23-24 "Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Jesus isn's talking so much about living a humble life as He is demonstrating God's grace. At the time, a rich man was seen as the most righteous as he 'had obviously been blessed by God for his good works.' But Jesus is saying, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for this man that you all see as holy and right before the Lord to get into heaven on his own accord. The rich man in all his glory can never reach God. Instead it is by God's grace (Jesus' sacrifice) that this man may be in the presence of the Lord.
I'm not trying to preach, simply trying to dispell some rumors that surround Christianity.
P.S. Thanks for the picture stoke
Last edited by fluffballs; 12-03-2006 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Crinkle [/QUOTE]Go Sharks.
12-03-2006, 04:56 PM #59
12-03-2006, 05:03 PM #60
But the big problem is that he's not witnessing for anyone but Jamie Pierre.
See, there would have to be an actual Jesus Christ, Son of God, empowering and protecting Jamie Pierre in order for the "witnessing for Jesus" claim to be true.
Being a witness for Jesus Christ includes behaving in a way that reflects the principles set forth in the New Testament and ascribed to Jesus. It doesn't mean doing someting nutso and bragging that it happened because of Jesus.
To Fluffballs --
Why are you proselytizing? Do you think that it is your duty to do so?
I challenge your interpretation of the New Testament. You use it conveniently, in a manner that suits your view of what you think God and Jesus are about. In truth there is little difference among all the major deity-based religions and Christianity is no different from Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam. Where they differ is in how humans tend to manipulate the basic lessons for their own ends -- be it charlatans like Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell or John Ashcroft, or lame proselytizers who come into skiing discussion forums to try to convert the heathen.
Last edited by uncle crud; 12-03-2006 at 05:08 PM.
12-03-2006, 05:07 PM #61
Uncle Crud, I am no Christian, or a believer of any organized faith, but I do have to say that your statement was remarkably well put.
12-03-2006, 05:10 PM #62Go Sharks.
12-03-2006, 05:19 PM #63
thanks, rideit. the air's a bit smarter and a bit thicker with brainpower in here than over at mtbr.com in Forum 88. probably only a matter of time before "sandan" brings his fecally smeared power fist over here to give me an e-punch in the throat.
12-03-2006, 05:26 PM #64
Hah...I only use F88 as an entertaining way to goad Frank Booth. Odd forum, that one.
12-03-2006, 05:34 PM #65
I'm interested as to why you say I use the New Testament at my convenience. As a protestant I hold the Bible to be the word of God, it is what I base my faith and life off of. I do not believe it is to be manipulated and used as one pleases, you cannot simply take what you like and leave the rest. You either believe it all or nothing at all. If I have misquoted or misparaphrased any form of scripture please tell me and I will review and revise it immediately. I'm trying to portray the most widely held views of Christians today, sure we might disagree over trival matters, but hopefully I am presenting the fundamental beliefs of Christianity.
As far as all diety-based religions being the same. Yes they all preach love, and helping others. But I challenge you to look deeper at the theology. You cannot deny that the concept of Grace is only present in one.Go Sharks.
12-03-2006, 05:40 PM #66
12-03-2006, 05:45 PM #67In the long run, we're all dead.- John Maynard Keynes
12-03-2006, 05:48 PM #68
Isn't that one of the principle right of a slave owner? Most of whom were protestant, coincidentally?
Funny how there were very, very few Jewish slave owners...simply can't imagine why. It would be mildly Ironic during the Seder, however. I guess they do have palestinian cleaning ladies...
12-03-2006, 05:54 PM #69
Fluffballs, "grace" is present in all religions. The only difference is what the religion in question calls the notion that Christianity references as "God's grace."
I don't need to look any more deeply into Christianity. I examined it quite deeply over the course of the years 1999-2001 as an adult with a very open mind, and I also studied it much earlier than that, as a student at a Jesuit college, where we had to take 6 credits of theological studies. I'm fairly proficient at reading comprehension and have discussed the New Testament's statements with many Christians from all points on the spectrum of Christianity.
But I thank you for the invitation.
And I stand by how I characterized your view of the New Testament, at least within the confines of how you have referenced its text and its general lessons so far in this thread.
12-03-2006, 05:54 PM #70
Paging Two Planker!!!
12-03-2006, 05:55 PM #71
12-03-2006, 05:57 PM #72
Let my people COME!
Oh...whoops, I thought I was in 'the padded room'...my bad!
12-03-2006, 06:13 PM #73
FWIW - I think you make a lot of sense with the way you see things on this particular topic. I just find it interesting that other people reading and quoting the same scriptures come up with a totally different stance and use the same exact argument.
Regardless, good for you standing up for your beliefs and stimulating an at least mostly rational discussion. Which is the best we can ask for around here!"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow, what a Ride!"
12-03-2006, 06:28 PM #74
Perhaps I'm closed minded, but to me the only grace is 'God's grace'. In what other religion does God come to the people for salvation. My understanding is that in every other religion the individual must work to get to God.
Just questions, as I don't claim to know it all. Where is grace in Hinduism? Isn't your cast determined by your actions in the previous life through Karma? You mess up, you pay the price, you do well, you advance (a very simplified overview). I don't see where forgiveness falls into that equation.
Judaism is essentially the same, uphold the law and you will go to Heaven. Of course the law was impossible to uphold, thus the need for a savior.
I don't want to pick at other religions, I have a lot respect for people of all faiths. For the most part we all hope to show God's love to one another. However, I do believe that there is only one way to the Father.
Regarding my manipulating of scripture, that's a big deal to me. If I have truly done it I want to be shown where and how to correct my mistake. I was trying to tread lightly, but my hope is that I didn't sugarcoat any of the basic principles to make Christianity sound more appealing.Go Sharks.
12-03-2006, 06:29 PM #75
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