Big skis reviewed again

[Vitamin I]

I demoed these back-to-back-to-back, so this may add perspective to other reviews. No untracked pow, but I hit many terrain types at Loveland. I’m 6’ 2”, 190 lbs, usually ski 1st gen BD’s, 193 m103, Spats.

In the sequence I skied them:

06 194 LegendPro (97mm) – Blew my mind. Skied a lot like 193 m103s. Felt mounted a bit too forward, so if they had been mounted back a bit, I’d guess they’d outgun the 193 m103 by just a hair. Stable as hell, powerful input required, want to go fast all the time, tend to stay glued to the surface.

07 191 ANT (106mm) – Mounted FW. Nice float and power for a twin. Completely outgunned by the bigger skis I tried this day, so the only reason I’d buy these would be for somewhat manageable switch/spins.

07 194 LegendProXXL (109mm) – I thought there is no way these demo tents will provide a bigger gun than the 06 194 LP. Wrong. The XXL blew my mind to a whole new level. Felt similar to the 06 194 LP, but biggest difference was maching over “small wavelength” disturbances that are too firm to be flattened. In these situations, XXL’s softer tip provided better shock absorption and better "glued to surface" effect, allowing more stability and control at higher speeds in that terrain. Dangerous ski in that it lures you to try ridiculous speeds all the time in nearly all terrain, would likely lead to fulltime body armor, and perhaps eventually to inbounds gaper roadkill (no joke). Lured to these speeds at all times, even a “routine” fall would be pretty serious. Antisocial ski in that you won’t want to slow down for your buddies. Can slow down a bit to handle tight, tall moguls, but I’d be too scared to take these into tight trees. XXL has more float than 06 194 LP, but float might not matter when you’re slaying everything with this much speed and power. Very powerful input required --- I decided to tighten my boots a bit, and the forces packed my liner a bit more. I cannot imagine any ski matching the XXL, but I’d like to try the 194 Squad.

07 191 m105 (105mm) – Completely outgunned by the bigger skis I tried this day. Less float and power than ANT, so maybe the only reason I’d buy these would be for an easy, turny recovery day and switch/spins.

07 184 Elan m1111 (121mm) - I don’t get it. I couldn’t find their strengths. Maybe too short for me? I conclude these are either one-dimensional (untracked pow only), or else zero-dimensional (maybe lame/mediocre at everything).

07 192 Thug (120mm) – Mounted FW. Blew my mind again. These skis feel heavy and powerful like the XXL, but not quite the same class as XXL. Thug feels shorter than XXL at high speeds, and turns with less powerful input, but make no mistake---these ski like a long, stiff, heavy uberfat (completely different class than 1st gen BigDaddies). Not much point in short or medium turns---they want speed, meaning longer arcs and straightlines, and they tend to stay glued to the surface. With no untracked pow available, the Thug’s width slowed them down compared to the XXL and 06 194 LP (more width means it hits more surface inconsistencies to slow it down), and it felt like it had an attainable terminal velocity. I am not very qualified to evaluate its twintip performance, but it makes the ANT feel like a cheap plastic toy from a McD’s happy meal. The Thug is very powerful, not agile, and I think Pollard himself would have to step it up a notch to do his Prophet 130 switch/spin moves on the Thug. So I’m saying few will really harness the value of the twintip---many owners will just slay skiing forwards.

07 190 BigDaddy (125mm) – Blew my mind again. Blows away 1st gen BD’s. Feels a lot like the Thug, and their similarities stand out to me more than their differences. With skis this huge, wide, stiff, and heavy (and the way they like to stay glued to the surface), maybe subtle differences in feel and response to finesse input seem insignificant when you’re slaying everything with so much speed and power.

A very fun day pushing these skis.

[marshalolson]

ha. i saw someone skiing the thugs, XXL's and BD's up there. i was in the orange puffy, white pants and dp lotus. nicely written reviews.

[SponsoredByDuctTape]

All of these skis are too long for me, but that is one kick-ass review. Very entertaining.

[Professor]

Hey V.I., tell me about the new BDs on groomers. And "yes" I am totally serious. Since they arent rockered at all I wonder if they suffer the "wanderingness" of the EHP....

[teosickrider]

Very helpful reviews!Thanks!

[Particle]

Nice reviews V.I. (and sick screen name)

Prof I was just about to forward this link to you...heh. Thugs. Interesting.

[Professor]

Nice Prof I was just about to forward this link to you...heh. Thugs. Interesting.

Now if this thread just had a good review of 190 Sumos, MAYBE I could make up my mind. BTW did anyone else know that Sumos are "almost" flat? I didnt until I played with them.......

[Skid Lux]

Professor,
A few friends of mine that work at Points North have the sumo's and claim them to be the best thing since sliced bread. They claim them to bethe best pow/ big air ski ever.
for what it's worth.

[Professor]

Professor,
A few friends of mine that work at Points North have the sumo's and claim them to be the best thing since sliced bread. They claim them to bethe best pow/ big air ski ever.
for what it's worth.

Best EVER I thought only Xover used that term Seriously, I am really tempted by the Sumos. But in looking at them, I doubt they ski backwards all that well. The twin isnt very big. Good thing for me, I never EVER ski backwards...... I go backwards occasionally, but usually it was not a planned event and you cant really call it skiing. I think "falling" is actually the appropriate term

[Phill]

I want a xxl lengend pro...

...and a mustang and a million dollars and a private jet and a helicopter....

[72Twenty]

i was in the orange puffy, white pants and dp lotus.

heh - a creamsicle!

[Professor]

heh - a dreamsicle!

I wish you would keep your twisted fantasy OUT of Tech Talk

[Vitamin I]

...tell me about the new BDs on groomers...Since they arent rockered at all I wonder if they suffer the "wanderingness" of the EHP...

Groomer performance of 07 BD is definitely good enough that you should not let it stop you from getting this ski.

Riding the bases fast on groomers, I did not get them to flap at all, and they felt like they hugged convex rollovers damn well. Good.

I did not push the 07 BD's edges hard in any focussed carving test, but based on how I skied them, I am confident "they'll carve OK" (or maybe even better than OK). They are not like Spatulas on hardpack, not at all. They did not "wander" on me any more than I intentionally allowed them to wander (I have a few Spats habits). I never tried EHP, but 07 BD's have pretty conventional shape, and no rocker, so I am confident they carve better than 193 EHP's.

Let me clarify what I mean by "they should carve OK". (1) This ski has R=41m, so when on edge, expect it's gonna take a while to come around even if you focus on railing them hard. (2) 125mm waist is FAT, so when switching edges, I'd barely start to tip them and the new edge would hit snow right away before I had a chance to lean my body into the turn. Amplifying that effect is the fact that these things want to stay glued to the surface, so I wasn't getting usual lift off the surface during edge transitions (less lift = less time to tip the ski before edge sets). (3) Plus, on groomers, I was focussng on trying to make them flap. The combined result: a slightly wiggly straightline with some edging but very little tipping.

If I had focussed on railing them hard, I think I would have overcome all the weirdness of carving uberfats within 2 runs and would have gotten the carving dialed in, although the final solution might involve unexpected input and/or unexpected resulting carve feel (I don't know, I didn't try). Like maybe you'd have to try to pop up very hard on each edge transition just to get a little lift, and/or maybe lean your body sooner or later than expected, or whatever.

Can anybody comment on how Prophet 130 and original Sumo carve on hardpack? If they can carve, then the 07 BD will carve also.

Interesting note: 06 194 LP and 07 LP XXL just railed without me even focussing on it. I didn't try to dig in the tip and flex them hard to rail a tighter arc, but the skis just railed anyway in a large arc (very large arc). Pretty cool---well attached to the surface whether riding the bases or edges.

.

[Particle]

Can anybody comment on how Prophet 130 and original Sumo carve on hardpack? If they can carve, then the 07 BD will carve also.

This question just resurfaced a memory for me. I was at the bird on a super sick pow day with Prof a couple years back on the 130's. Towards the end of the day the groomers were getting pretty hammered and fast. Anderson's = terrifying windshield wiper slide for life. V.I. has a good point - on skis this wide, whether they have true sidecut or not, I'm not sure the edging power of a XXL or Squad is really going to be possible. But then again, the 130 is a rather wimpy 186 with a big twin...

[glademaster]

It will be interesting to see how the semi-traditional superfat market plays out (i.e. tapered, camber-less designs as opposed to reverse sidecut/rockered ones). Can't wait for more in depth reviews of the new Big Daddy and Lotus 120. Looks like the short list of super-fats for the winter after this one is the new Big Daddy, 190 Lotus 120 or a 185 Iggy FFF. Gonna be a tough call.

Great review overall, but is there any chance you can comment on the quickness/manuverability of the Big Big Daddy compared to the Thug, Spat or any other superfat you've ridden? I've heard they're quicker than the Thug and more manuverable in tight spots, while being nearly as stable, but not many people have skied both.

[Blurred]

I got on the chair the other day, and learned I was riding with a maggot who goes by the name of Vitamin I. Nice meeting you, and thanks for the good reviews.... I love the comparisons with the 103. I've got a pair coming from soul_skier, and I'm anxious to try them to say the least.

[Shredhead]

Was the 06 194 LP you demoed with the original graphics? Is it true that the 07 LP's are no longer race room production and does it make any difference?

[ulty_guy]

shred, wonder about the 07 lp's too. on the old hand flex, they do seem softer than the bright orange, creamsicle 05/06's.

[72Twenty]

And I'm stoked that I finally got a pair of 1st gen BD's.

I'm behind the times.

The way I like it.

[lemon boy]

Q: what is the comparative weight of an 07 bd vs a gen 1 BD? Don't need to be too weeny about it...

[mr_gyptian]

OK, my BD 07 order just got negged. I can order the Thug in the 181 or 192. However, I am borderline obsessed with the Big Daddy and might just pick up some Supercharger Blowers and wait until the 08 BD comes out.

Or is the Thug a worthy alternative to the BD?

[Professor]

So now I am wondering if it is the rockered shovel on the EHP that is the issue on groomers. If it was the pintail design, BDs would do have the same issues. As for Particle's idea that maybe it is the width that keeps them from edging due to edge pressure may play a part. But I am not looking for real performance on groomers, but laying down a clean carve on a nice new sheet of corduroy is never a bad thing.....

[gwat]

Was the 06 194 LP you demoed with the original graphics? Is it true that the 07 LP's are no longer race room production and does it make any difference?

Yep, ALL Pros (186s included) are now production skis. I am a bit worried. We shall see if there are any noticiable differences....

[marshalolson]

So now I am wondering if it is the rockered shovel on the EHP that is the issue on groomers. If it was the pintail design, BDs would do have the same issues. As for Particle's idea that maybe it is the width that keeps them from edging due to edge pressure may play a part. But I am not looking for real performance on groomers, but laying down a clean carve on a nice new sheet of corduroy is never a bad thing.....

my 120's carve decently well...