Thread: Burliest AT setup

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Hey, I'm just suggesting that as the lightest possible setup that would make ZERO compromises on the way down. LP's are not that heavy, btw.

If it makes you happy, I'll go skin 4k vertical feet at stowe this weekend (to the top of the quad, then two laps of the top half) on a heavier setup than that, just to see how it works. Went straight up liftline last weekend on a setup only 3-4 lb lighter (launchers, mentioned above), and was not exhausted. An skin up nosedive on a heavier setup should be a peice of cake.

BTW, I should mention my flexons weigh about 7.5 lb for the pair, which is sicko light for an alpine boot.

Like I said I've got a pair of lps. I'm familiar with them. Other than spats, they're the heaviest ski I own out of explosivs, gotamas, made'ns. Going from gotamas or the made'ns, I did notice a difference in how tired I was doing routes I've done a bunch.

How much snow are you talking about hiking in though? Our environments might matter in this case.

I'm not trying to jump on your case or anything, I was just saying that setup you listed sounded beastly. Other than spring time, the reason I'm hiking is to get untracked runs. In deep snow, 18din alpine bidings, trekkers and a heavy ski just isn't that much of an advantage to me over some lighter setups. That's all I was saying. As with anything, there's a personal balance there.

Originally Posted by kidwoo

Like I said I've got a pair of lps. I'm familiar with them. Other than spats, they're the heaviest ski I own out of explosivs, gotamas, made'ns. Going from gotamas or the made'ns, I did notice a difference in how tired I was doing routes I've done a bunch.

How much snow are you talking about hiking in though? Our environments might matter in this case.

I'm not trying to jump on your case or anything, I was just saying that setup you listed sounded beastly. Other than spring time, the reason I'm hiking is to get untracked runs. In deep snow, 18din alpine bidings, trekkers and a heavy ski just isn't that much of an advantage to me over some lighter setups. That's all I was saying. As with anything, there's a personal balance there.

I'm not disagreeing - for slaying pow laps, I think we can all agree that AT's work fine for just about anybody. But not for charging.....and I just don't like how they ski in general.

Put those 186 lp's on a scale....I bet they weigh under 5 lb each....

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

I'm not disagreeing - for slaying pow laps, I think we can all agree that AT's work fine for just about anybody. But not for charging.....and I just don't like how they ski in general.

Put those 186 lp's on a scale....I bet they weigh under 5 lb each....

Will do. I'll be switching the bindings pretty soon here.

I guess the only charging I do is on my credit card. What I lack in skill sees compensation with technology.

So, Damien Sanders= highwaystar?

Wow can't beleive the number of guys that actually endure the hell of trekkers. On a FULL day tour crossing several glaciers with all that weight I think I would just slit my wrists and crawl into a crevase.

Originally Posted by flykdog

So, Damien Sanders= highwaystar?

Hahaha, no. I heard that he likes trekkers though, and I got a few tips about treekers from his posts.

dynafits are definitely a solid interface between boot & ski, but find fritschis workable in all situations. the toughest condition for them is fat skis (>100mm waist) + firm/icy terrain...even then, it's the skier, not the ski.

So then the question is would Spirit 4 + Dynafits work better than, say, Endorphin + NX21 or Freeride Plus. No doubt there is less slop in the boot-binding interface, but you trade off boot stiffness.

I'm hoping to ski all my area + sidecountry days in Tornado Pros this year so I minimize switching boots.

ive got sanouks with nx21s. Probably going to get a set of trekkers for other skis. For those who have more then one set of touring skis, do you have more then one set of skins?

Originally Posted by upallnight

i think the point is that it's a personal decision as to what is 'worth it'. tons of folks rip on AT bindings and can go further/faster with the reduced weight w/o penalty on the descent.

other folks can't use AT gear without seriously compromising the descent, therefore they'll take a weight penalty (and not go as far or fast as they otherwise could with lighter gear).

it is indisputable that the lighter your gear, the further, faster or longer you can go. however, if one is sacrificing something at the end (or one simply doesn't need to go to a more remote location or get an extra lap in), then it's easier to accept the weight hit.

THAT is where the trade-off comes into play.

those sentences did intertwine didn't they. woops. I concur upallnight, but everyones comfort, fitness level and ability is different. Oh shit I'm hammering on the same point. Oh well.

Originally Posted by mc_roon

For those who have more then one set of touring skis, do you have more then one set of skins?

Yup.

Probably not necessary but I don't like screwing with skins every time I use another pair of skis. If my skis were closer in shape I wouldn't bother though.

yeah i agree with upallnight... its all about the personal preference.

i went on a pretty serious hut trip with a bunch of friends in the san juans this past winter (late season) and was surprised how many of my friends were using trekkers. there were still more ATs but it was definitely interesting.

on a side note, one of my buddies blew out a trekker on the skin out... ended up not being that bad because we hiked to a decent road that was covered in ice and had a gnarly race back to our van... but, if it would have been earlier it would have BLOWN... im sure they are quality but they just dont look bomber

btw upallnight i tried to pm you again but your full

Originally Posted by marshalolson

oh, and choke slam & I have been talking about making super trekkers...

I've thought about making something custom to my boot sole too. If I could TIG weld and had access to cheap aluminium I'd have already tried it.

This year I'll be on 192 Bros, 916s and Trekkers.

Originally Posted by dfinn

how did you break your naxos? I think I've heard of some issues with older models but from what I recall, those issues have been fixed. yes/no?

i exploded this years nx21 heel piece in 2 days skiing early season powder turns not particularly aggressively, as the snow is not that deep yet. no rocks or anything. that said, BCA is totally hooking me up, as i am sure they will to anyone with a similar issue. my guess is just a bad molded heel, and am sure the replacement ones will be fine, though my faith in them is 0%, thus dside is the big winner... realistically, i think they ski a shade better than FR, slightly less height anyway.

i am just much of a fat-ass for plastic bindings, no matter how you slice it. oh well.

whats the one nice thing about being 5-10 145 lbs................having the ability to huck 20 ft cliffs with nx01s

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

I'm not disagreeing - for slaying pow laps, I think we can all agree that AT's work fine for just about anybody. But not for charging.....and I just don't like how they ski in general.

well, i guess i disagree. i think one can charge on just about any setup. skiers have been charging for a long time on equipment far less burly than the alpine and AT gear of today.

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Put those 186 lp's on a scale....I bet they weigh under 5 lb each....

to kidwoo's point, 5# for ski alone + alpine binding + trekker is pretty serious for a 186.

Originally Posted by mc_roon

ive got sanouks with nx21s. Probably going to get a set of trekkers for other skis. For those who have more then one set of touring skis, do you have more then one set of skins?

yes. i basically have 3 sets for skis that are different width-ranges. each skin can go on more than one pair of skis...as long as it's in the same width range.

e.g., i have a set for 70-80mm waist, 90 - 100, and a big one for >115.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

i exploded this years nx21 heel piece in 2 days skiing early season powder turns not particularly aggressively, as the snow is not that deep yet. no rocks or anything. that said, BCA is totally hooking me up, as i am sure they will to anyone with a similar issue. my guess is just a bad molded heel, and am sure the replacement ones will be fine, though my faith in them is 0%, thus dside is the big winner... realistically, i think they ski a shade better than FR, slightly less height anyway.

i am just much of a fat-ass for plastic bindings, no matter how you slice it. oh well.

sounds like an anomaly, but that's disconcerting. doesn't the nx21 have more metal in it than most AT bindings?

to be clear, it sounds like marshal would destroy most non-metal ALPINE bindings, too.

dayum.

yo upallnight i tried to PM you again (realizing my offer sucked) but your full

Originally Posted by upallnight

well, i guess i disagree. i think one can charge on just about any setup. skiers have been charging for a long time on equipment far less burly than the alpine and AT gear of today.

Very true. But taking air consistently to less than perfect landings (pow) will explode your AT stuff. That just how it is...

Originally Posted by Z

Very true. But taking air consistently to less than perfect landings (pow) will explode your AT stuff. That just how it is...

agreed on that, Z. stomping the landings helps, but nobody's ever argued that consistent air on any AT binding of >20' is going to have no effect on longevity of the bindings.

Originally Posted by upallnight

well, i guess i disagree. i think one can charge on just about any setup. skiers have been charging for a long time on equipment far less burly than the alpine and AT gear of today.

.............

to kidwoo's point, 5# for ski alone + alpine binding + trekker is pretty serious for a 186.

.................

yes. i basically have 3 sets for skis that are different width-ranges. each skin can go on more than one pair of skis...as long as it's in the same width range.

e.g., i have a set for 70-80mm waist, 90 - 100, and a big one for >115.

Over the years, I've seen some people do some pretty damn impressive skiing on very limited (alpine) equipment, so it's certainly possible. If you can ski how you want to ski on AT, then that's great. Personally, I don't spend enough time on AT equipment to feel comfortable with where the limits are.

Under 5# for a ski and 2.5 lb for a binding isn't that bad. What are trekkers, like 1.25 each?

I have two pairs of skins and can hike on almost any ski in the quiver. 85-90mm, and 115+.

Good discussion.

Looks like I will go with the suggestions from the "JH ski swap" thread I started and put my FRs on the new Axioms and remount my Sanouks with new dynafit Vert STs.

The Axiom/FR/Megaride setup should be pretty burly and I will use my alpine boots (old red Atomics) for village days.

I've never really felt the slop others refer to in Fritschis. I'm only about 160# but I think I ski pretty hard and I have skied Frits inbounds at the village with AT or alpine boots for years. I always remove the plastic toe peice which gives them the same delta angle as many alpine bindings (by my measurments). This also sets the heel "feet" firmly on the surface of the ski in my experience. I also crank the toe height down until there isn't any gap. After working in a shop for a lot of years those plastic toe height cards seem pretty silly.

So, I wonder, do the folks who feel slop either a) Have the toe height set too loose, b) Have the forward pressure too loose, c) Have poor fitting boots(like the OP said) or d) maybe they are just way cooler than I am (most likely answer).

Also, tried to weight the Axioms today. postal scale at work only goes to 5# which is fine for most single unmouted skis but this ski maxed it out. i'm guessing around 6 1/4# per ski. Anyone know th right answer?

Originally Posted by shirk

Wow can't beleive the number of guys that actually endure the hell of trekkers. On a FULL day tour crossing several glaciers with all that weight I think I would just slit my wrists and crawl into a crevase.

If I was standing on top of a steep exposed line that I knew I would be taking at speed, maybe with an air or two, I would piss my pants if I knew I had to do it on completly plastic glorified cross country bindings.

Originally Posted by sar13

Good discussion.

Looks like I will go with the suggestions from the "JH ski swap" thread I started and put my FRs on the new Axioms and remount my Sanouks with new dynafit Vert STs.

The Axiom/FR/Megaride setup should be pretty burly and I will use my alpine boots (old red Atomics) for village days.

I've never really felt the slop others refer to in Fritschis. I'm only about 160# but I think I ski pretty hard and I have skied Frits inbounds at the village with AT or alpine boots for years. I always remove the plastic toe peice which gives them the same delta angle as many alpine bindings (by my measurments). This also sets the heel "feet" firmly on the surface of the ski in my experience. I also crank the toe height down until there isn't any gap. After working in a shop for a lot of years those plastic toe height cards seem pretty silly.

So, I wonder, do the folks who feel slop either a) Have the toe height set too loose, b) Have the forward pressure too loose, c) Have poor fitting boots(like the OP said) or d) maybe they are just way cooler than I am (most likely answer).

Also, tried to weight the Axioms today. postal scale at work only goes to 5# which is fine for most single unmouted skis but this ski maxed it out. i'm guessing around 6 1/4# per ski. Anyone know th right answer?

Ballpark 11.5 lb per pair on the axioms....they are not over 6 lb each...but that's still absurdly heavy.

I've skied freerides set up exactly as you describe, and still don't like how they ski....I thought they were plenty laterally stiff, it's the super high lift, pivoting toe and floating heel that I don't like, along with the 12 din.....I don't feel confident cranking a freeride to 12 like I do with an old school 12 din salomon.

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

I've skied freerides set up exactly as you describe, and still don't like how they ski....I thought they were plenty laterally stiff, it's the super high lift, pivoting toe and floating heel that I don't like, along with the 12 din.....I don't feel confident cranking a freeride to 12 like I do with an old school 12 din salomon.

Wait - I thought you were a snowboarder

The extra lift issue I can totally see and the DIN issue too. I've been skiing all of my bindings at 9 for years and fortunately that works for me.

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

If I was standing on top of a steep exposed line that I knew I would be taking at speed, maybe with an air or two, I would piss my pants if I knew I had to do it on completly plastic glorified cross country bindings.

shirk I do believe he said you ski like a pussy

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Ballpark 11.5 lb per pair on the axioms....they are not over 6 lb each...but that's still absurdly heavy.

My Axioms + Diamir 3s with wide brakes = 15#

Not my first choice on a long tour.