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  1. #26
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    good thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I have rechargeable batteries in my beacon, so I just throw em in the charger for a couple hours.
    I always thought that rechargeables were a bad idea for beacons.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post

    I always thought that rechargeables were a bad idea for beacons.
    From the lackluster performance of every rechargeable battery I've ever used in anything, I would tend to agree. My $.02

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I have rechargeable batteries in my beacon, so I just throw em in the charger for a couple hours.
    That may not be such a great idea. They have a different discharge curve which may not be compatible with the beacon - beacons can be designed with wide parameters, but they are primarily designed to be used with standard alkalines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortovox
    Rechargeable batteries are not recommended because:

    1. The accurate remaining battery life and capacity is very difficult to ascertain.
    2. The power is quickly drained even after a relatively short period of storage.
    3. The power output diminishes after a longer period of use.
    4. The initial voltage of rechargeable batteries is lower than alkaline ones (1.2 V compared to 1.5 V).
    They also have different cold-weather characteristics, I believe.

    No need to replace the batteries just for replacement sake, if you have a beacon that shows remaining charge, and you're in a reasonable range (say >90%) and you check the batteries themselves for no signs of oxidation/carbonization/leakage at the business ends.

  4. #29
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    Don't know what you use LeRoy, but the Barryvox specifically warns against rechargables. Maybe check your manual. This is not the place to skimp, and good alkaline batteries last a long time in a beacon.
    ________________________________________________
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  5. #30
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    This thread gave me the great idea to crack open my new Tracker and insert the fresh new batteries into it. I am one happy horny girl with all this fresh new snow in PNW.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    This thread gave me the great idea to crack open my new Tracker and insert the fresh new batteries into it. I am one happy horny girl with all this fresh new snow in PNW.
    And you said "insert".
    "The beacon says you're a douche."

    -My friend Nick during a little transceiver practice

  7. #32
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    I was swapping out my batteries last week prior to doing some beacon drills and noticed there was a crack in housing on my beacon. I sent it back to BCA and they are shipping out a new one.

  8. #33
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    So my baryvox is saying the batteries are at 94%. Is everyone swapping batteries because they are low in juice or because its just a bad idea to be using old batteries, regardless of how juiced they are? Just curious.

  9. #34
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    Damn, good to know about the rechargeables. I don't have my manual with me to make sure, but I have a tracker, and have read the manual. Don't remember seeing anyting about rechargeables, but I guess alkalines last a while, so rechargeables are pointless anyways. Batteries=switched.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  10. #35
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    I think it's just good operating procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    So my baryvox is saying the batteries are at 94%. Is everyone swapping batteries because they are low in juice or because its just a bad idea to be using old batteries, regardless of how juiced they are? Just curious.
    Replacing at the beginning of the year is not a bad idea to begin with.

    Also, electronics shouldn't be stored for long periods of inactivity with batteries in them that could leak, corrode, etc...

    Best for the equipment and peace of mind as well, I think.
    "The beacon says you're a douche."

    -My friend Nick during a little transceiver practice

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    So my baryvox is saying the batteries are at 94%. Is everyone swapping batteries because they are low in juice or because its just a bad idea to be using old batteries, regardless of how juiced they are? Just curious.
    You will get an alarm when the batteries are below 20%. you should be able to operate 20 hours in transmit and 2 hours in receive as i recall at 20%. I change out anytime its below 50% at startup. In normal mode, it can transmit for a long time. A lot of people change out at 70 or 80 percent, but there is really no good reason to do so.
    ________________________________________________
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    Damn, good to know about the rechargeables. I don't have my manual with me to make sure, but I have a tracker, and have read the manual. Don't remember seeing anyting about rechargeables, but I guess alkalines last a while, so rechargeables are pointless anyways. Batteries=switched.
    Well no harm, no foul, really. I mean, beacons work with rechargeables, even though they're generally designed to be used with nonrechargeables. I don't think anybody's been killed by using rechargeables (though there has been the concern about different sizing between battery brands causing loose connections with certain beacon models).

    But from this thread, here's a graph of battery behaviour:


    where you see the rechargeables voltage starting off lower then dropping off rather precipitously after a certain point. This rapid dropoff may well be a problem with Lithium batteries as well, even though they start off at pretty high voltage and have a longer lifespan. Also rechargeables lose charge just sitting around, far more rapidly than "regular" batteries.

    Ultimately, I think of it as more of a theoretical concern - but with safety I suppose one wants as many factors in one's favor as possible.

    And again, so long as the batteries don't show any sign of corrosion and they have a reasonable amount of charge, they should be good to go without replacement. As cirquerider mentions above, most can work for very long periods of time even with low residual voltage parameters - they're designed with a degree of fudge factor.

  13. #38
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    ECHO BEACON , one of my radio op IDS !!! My ma is ECHO BASE ...

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I always thought that rechargeables were a bad idea for beacons.
    The Energizer rechargeables last longer than regular AAs and are less sensitive to cold. With my camera I get close to 4 times more use out of rechargeable. Oh wait I broke my camera last week

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
    You will get an alarm when the batteries are below 20%. you should be able to operate 20 hours in transmit and 2 hours in receive as i recall at 20%. I change out anytime its below 50% at startup. In normal mode, it can transmit for a long time. A lot of people change out at 70 or 80 percent, but there is really no good reason to do so.
    how quickly does a beacon eat batteries in search mode? i always change out when it gets below 70% and rotate the old batteries to my mp3 player or something.. i keep thinking i might need that extra 30% searching someday.

    btw, is the extra cost of lithium batteries justified?

  16. #41
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    I've read enough here and elsewhere to convince me to just stay with Alkalines. Some referenced articles below.

    From pistehors

    Lithium Batteries and Avalanche Beacons

    A question that has come up recently is are these new high capacity Lithium AA cells good for my avalanche beacon? The motivation for using Lithium cells is that they are designed for electronic equipment (such as digital cameras) and resist cold much better than Alkaline batteries.



    However all the manufacturers are very strict about using only Alkaline batteries in their avalanche beacons. This is because the circuitry which detects how much battery life remains is tuned for this kind of cell. The capacity of Alkalines degrades gracefully whereas Lithium (and rechargeable cells) have a relatively flat discharge curve. One minute your beacon is saying 99% full, the next it is on zero.

    Avalanche transceivers have relatively low power requirements on transmit. With a full set of batteries they will go at least 200 hours and some will continue another 20 or so hours even when the display shows zero battery life. In search mode power requirements are much higher and a beacon with flat batteries may not work for very long and this is where Lithium and Rechargeable batteries could cause problems. Given that the average skier will only change batteries a couple of times in a season going Lithium or any other type of battery other than that recommended by the manufacturer seems like a bad idea.

    Some points to remember:
    * Test your beacon’s range on flatish batteries, this can show up problems with transmit power which are not evident on full power.
    * Remember to change batteries before their indicated life drops below 50%.
    * Sizes vary, check that the brand you buy cannot shake loose. Negative and positive terminals should be proud of the casing and covered by insulation at the edges. Use a known brand such as Duracell, or EveryReady. Avoid no-name Chinese batteries.
    * Wear your beacon close to your body to keep the batteries warm and avoid it being ripped off your body in the event of an avalanche if you have removed your shell layer.
    * Remove batteries at the end of the season for storage.
    * Recycle old batteries – they are often good for portable radios or other devices before they are fully discharged.
    From Ortovox:

    Interesting Facts about Battery use in Avalanche Transceivers

    In order for avalanche transceivers to function properly they need to have an adequate power supply. This is supplied by the batteries. The following information is provided about batteries and their use in avalanche transceivers.

    Battery Size:

    ORTOVOX avalanche transceivers use only LR6 batteries, commonly referred to as AA. The reason that ORTOVOX uses these batteries is due to their higher capacity and longer battery life.

    Dimensions of Batteries:

    Although the battery sizes are standardized, there may be a considerable variance in the length and diameter of batteries. The world-wide standard allows a minimum and a maximum size, however, this size can vary dramatically between battery manufacturers.

    Due to this battery size variance, there was a situation in 2005 in the USA concerning the m2. The use of batteries that were too small resulted in a disruption of the power supply after the unit suffered a severe blow which caused the batteries to become dislodged.

    Because of this situation we recommend that all battery compartment lids of m1 and m2 units be exchanged for a slightly modified lid. We will send you this new lid free of charge.

    The new battery lid has additional material that will help to reduce the movement of the batteries. In addition, we recommend that you use only large batteries that have a prominent negative terminal. This will ensure that your transceiver has proper battery contact at all times. Interruptions of the power supply have also been reported in other manufacturers transceivers. We recommend that you contact the respective manufacturers regarding this problem.

    Battery Types

    In principle, there are two different types of batteries used to power portable electrical devices.

    Alkaline Batteries – The most common. These batteries are disposed of once they are discharged.

    Rechargeable batteries – These can be reused after recharging. The battery life and number of possible recharges depends on the quality and type of battery.

    You should only use non-rechargeable alkaline batteries in avalanche transceivers.

    Rechargeable batteries are not recommended because:

    1. The accurate remaining battery life and capacity is very difficult to ascertain.
    2. The power is quickly drained even after a relatively short period of storage.
    3. The power output diminishes after a longer period of use.
    4. The initial voltage of rechargeable batteries is lower than alkaline ones (1.2 V compared to 1.5 V).

    At the beginning of a trip the battery strength indicated by a rechargeable battery may be very high, but after a few hours of use it may become completely discharged.

    Therefore we recommend that you use only high quality alkaline batteries.

    Types of Chemical Batteries

    Different batteries use different chemical systems. The most common are:

    1. Zinc-carbon batteries

    2. Alkaline-manganese batteries

    3. Lithium batteries

    The choice of the battery type depends on the primary use.

    Zinc-carbon batteries – low-priced, reduced temperature range, lower energy density than other batteries, higher internal resistance. For this reason it is advised that you do not use them in avalanche transceivers. Shorter shelf life due to high discharge.

    Alkaline-manganese batteries – 50 to 100 % more expensive than zinc-carbon, temperature range specified down to -20°C (our research has shown that alkaline-manganese batteries can be used down to -30°C), high energy density, low internal resistance. Low discharge rate which allows for a long shelf life (6 to 8 years). These batteries are the best for avalanche transceivers.

    Lithium batteries - more expensive than alkaline-manganese ones, high capacity, low temperature range. Studies indicate that there are few advantages when compared to alkaline-manganese. One disadvantage of the lithium batteries is that the discharge rate varies widely from the discharge rate of alkaline-manganese batteries. For this reason, an accurate battery check on the remaining life of a lithium battery is not possible. If we were to switch to lithium batteries, then the battery check would have to be changed in order to test the remaining strength of a lithium battery.

    We recommend that you only use alkaline-manganese batteries from a well know manufacturer of quality brands.
    Last edited by uglymoney; 11-15-2006 at 06:35 AM.

  17. #42
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    It's been a looong night...
    I swear the title of the thread was "new batteries in the BACON"

    battery operated bacon....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripzalot View Post
    how quickly does a beacon eat batteries in search mode? i always change out when it gets below 70% and rotate the old batteries to my mp3 player or something.. i keep thinking i might need that extra 30% searching someday.

    btw, is the extra cost of lithium batteries justified?
    Digi beacons eat batteries when in search mode and processor more sensitive to voltage drop than analog. That's why it's good practice to replace batteries when they still apear to have plenty of juice left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    So my baryvox is saying the batteries are at 94%. Is everyone swapping batteries because they are low in juice or because its just a bad idea to be using old batteries, regardless of how juiced they are? Just curious.
    I think it's more along the lines of "change the battery in the smoke detector every year" thing. Smoke detectors don't meter the strength of the battery, however, so 94% sounds like you're good to go.

  20. #45
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    First thing I did when pulling out my gear for the winter. My batteries still had some juice, but I changed them anyways. After reading about the lithium vs. alkaline, it looks like I'm going to be changing them again.

  21. #46
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    I bought a brand new Beacon this year. (tracker)
    It came with three Batteries from a company I would not consider "Name brand", nor ever seen before.
    I put them in because they came with the beacon.!?
    What's up with that??

  22. #47
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    put a fresh pair in before my first day this year....nice bright red "99"....all set

  23. #48
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    September 1st bump

    Snow is just around the corner for some folks
    For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was

  24. #49
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    Yea, its time to get out there and do some trnasceiver practices..........
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  25. #50
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    bump for first snows of the season
    "Oh, no pics. To simulate the skiing today, walk out your door, grab a handful of snow, and throw it in your face. Repeat as necessary.
    If you don't have snow outside your door, what the fuck are you living there for?"
    -Bum Z 1/30/08

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