Results 26 to 50 of 150
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01-26-2004, 02:15 AM #26Originally posted by CantDog
For AT boots and downhill boots to release the same you would have to have the same toe piece. Which would mean no Vibram, or a way to somehow counteract the increased coeff. of friction between the vibram and the AFP.
I just raise the toe for alpine (Sally) and shut the thinker off.
It’s so quiet, it’s so cool, it’s so cold
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01-26-2004, 03:35 AM #27
I have Vibram on my Richlee F1's they are almost identical height to normal toes and I haven't had problems in any binders......but my Lowa Strukas that have quite a lot of rocker work in Sallys with adjustable toe height and my Looks? without problems (and Freerides of course).....but Sally fixed height toes and low end Tyrolias pre relase rather than release high or not releasing, but this probably due to overstressing the toe piece.....they don't fit to well on old Markers (M48 racing).
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01-26-2004, 01:03 PM #28
Test was at room temp in all respects.
Originally Posted by blurred
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02-25-2006, 11:59 AM #29Originally Posted by Summit
I wonder if the new Fritschis test properly for toe release?. . .
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02-27-2006, 08:52 PM #30
........
maybe somekind of fitted solid cap...over the toe lug, shaped ala alpine toe-lug style. There must be room for a small screw to fasten on each side....
...maybe-not
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09-07-2006, 11:37 PM #31
any possibility to test out the vibrams with the new sollys with the moveable afd?
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09-07-2006, 11:48 PM #32
i might be able to talk the ole shop into letting me use the machine... if i can even get ap air of skis with those binders
Originally Posted by blurred
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09-08-2006, 12:43 PM #33Registered User
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Originally Posted by Summit
this up other than tangentially: The difference is not just the presence
of Vibram on the AT boot. AT boots and alpine boots have a different toe
configuration; the former all have boot rocker while the latter, designed
to the DIN standard, do not.
Thus, all AT bindings that I've looked at are designed to accommodate both
boot rocker and Vibram-style materials in the toe area; alpine bindings
weren't designed to handle either.
One other thing: AT bindings have release technology that's coincides with
the alpine release technology ca. 1976.
I'm not an expert on this matter, but it seems to me that if you're
interested in minimizing risks from boots/bindings, ski a dedicated alpine
setup in-area, and save your AT setup for the backcountry.
cheers,
john
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09-08-2006, 01:08 PM #34Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Originally Posted by jrredho
Also, here's their 1999 summary of what constitutes an obsolete binding:
http://www.vermontskisafety.com/faq_...q_skier_5.html
Would be very interesting to have them qualitatively evaluate and quantitatively test AT boot-binding systems.
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09-08-2006, 01:22 PM #35Originally Posted by Jonathan S.Quando paramucho mi amore de felice carathon.
Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol.
Questo abrigado tantamucho que canite carousel.
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09-08-2006, 01:40 PM #36Registered User
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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
Also, I don't know how to interpret the ski injury rate thing. There was
a time when I recall that particular group calling for a change in
philosophy in boot design, which I don't think was heeded, so maybe
that is a partial explanation.
I went through this whole process when I first bought AT gear for my
daughter. I was hoping to be able to get by with only one setup for the
obvious cost savings, but eventually came to the conclusion that it
was best to just bite the bullet and get her two complete setups.
I did the same for my gf. I just wanted to minimize the risks; not
eliminate them entirely...
cheers,
john
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09-08-2006, 02:03 PM #37Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Originally Posted by irul&ublo
Originally Posted by jrredho
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09-08-2006, 02:22 PM #38
I love that this thread is over 2.5 years old.
jrredho I see your point. I doubt that AT bindings + AT boots are ultimately as safe as alpine in alpine. However, if an AT boot in an "alpine" binding passes the safety tests that an alpine boot in an alpine binding has to pass... well isn't that good enough to use?
How many people here even get their alpine bindings tested anyway much less their AT bindings...Originally Posted by blurred
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09-08-2006, 04:22 PM #39
I didn't reread this whole thread but it seems to me there are two separate issues.
One being AT boots in alpine bindings, which seems to present a significant decrease in release consistency and thus safety. But is done all the time anyway with very few problems for users who know what they area doing.
And the other being Alpine boots in AT bindings (non Dynafit, duh!), which, in my experience, can test out just fine.
In other words, I'm not sure you have to buy your daughter of GF or anyone two complete setups just for safety sake. Sure if you want a DIN to 14 or for other performance reasons but I don't see a good reason why a lighter person can't use Fritschis on their every day skis and switch boots if they want to. There are lots of good reason to have multiple pair of skis but I'm not sure safety is one of them
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09-11-2006, 11:35 AM #40Registered User
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Originally Posted by sar13
them both separate setups. My reasoning, however flawed it might be,
relates to my point about the release technology that is present in AT
bindings more than the ability to accommodate the boot. Btw, I think
you're right about that part, but, again, I am not only not an expert, I'm
not even qualified to give an opinion on this whole matter!...
cheers,
john
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09-11-2006, 11:42 AM #41
ive used denalis in looks, solly, and gasp... Marker(but only a few times on a friends skis)... for three years now with no pre release(maybe a few but whose counting) or non release issues, and have no clue what the big deal is about(yes i read and understand the entire thread). No shop will mount bindings to them even if i sign away my life. I think people need to chill and just go ski. AT boots are fine in alpine binders no matter what anyone says IMVHO
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09-11-2006, 02:57 PM #42Registered User
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Odds are good that the ones saying "go for it" are teens or 20-somethings with fresh knees and limited experience in the joys of rehab.
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09-11-2006, 04:17 PM #43Originally Posted by Summit
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09-11-2006, 04:29 PM #44Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
but when testing for something like this id rather be on the conservative side.
plus there is reality. How realistic is it to setup an artificial environment inside a ski shop. I suppose you could just temp soak each ski outside in the snow before you test it, but even then there are variables, perhaps even moreso..
also since it was the same boot used, it would stand to say that the improvement in release\repeatability would increase by the same amount for each binding being that all the afds are made from a very similar, if not the same material.
edit
theres also unaccounted for factors which could also drastically change the release characteristics such as ice, frost, and water.
ive got no idea how to make a test that accounts all of that accurately.
not to mention gravel\scree peices stuck between the lugs.Last edited by pechelman; 09-11-2006 at 04:32 PM.
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09-11-2006, 08:35 PM #45
testing to see if a binding is performing within limits is performed inside... you ski outside... I presume that the binding companies and the testing machine companies took this into account when they designed the testing parameters and procedures (otherwise their shit wouldn't stand up very well in court)
that goes for AT bindings as well...
I could be wrong but I would be surprised if they didn'tOriginally Posted by blurred
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09-12-2006, 05:10 AM #46Originally Posted by jrredho
i guess what i'm saying is that if the above is true, than AT boots would release more safely out of the new 914 than it would out of a fritchi. ???
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09-12-2006, 10:28 AM #47Originally Posted by Summit
The problem is that the chareterisitcs of the vibram sole change a hell of a lot more with temp then the plastic soles of alpine boots, so you really cant comapre the two at room temp and epect them to behave the same at colder temps.
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09-12-2006, 10:40 AM #48
MBS: you make an excellent point. perhaps I can use pechelman's temp soak idea if I do further testing.
Vibram becomes stiffer and slicker when it gets cold, yes? Slicker would enhance releasability I think. I'd speculate that stiffer could possibly create problems with the auto toe height...Originally Posted by blurred
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09-12-2006, 11:16 AM #49Originally Posted by Snow Dog"There is a hell of a huge difference between skiing as a sport- or even as a lifestyle- and skiing as an industry"
Hunter S. Thompson, 1970 (RIP)
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09-12-2006, 11:45 AM #50Originally Posted by Summit
Cold soaking outside in snow as mentioned would introduce additional variables to the testing, primarially water which would also help to lubricate the slip surfaces of the boot sole and AFD.
Just something to keep in mind.
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