Thread: big daddy / neox 614 mounting question

so i picked up some of the big daddys from evogear and figured that it would be nice and easy if i just picked up some atomic neox 614 binders to go with them. i didnt research the atomic bindings here to see they were regarded as just slightly better than marker, but figured i would give them a shot. well, the screw pattern on the neox bindings doesnt match the pattern on the big daddy plate. apparently, i picked up some 2004/2005 bindings to put on 2003/2004 skis. why the hell would a company make a plate/binding interface like that then change the screw pattern the next year?

anyway, i have a couple questions.
i bought some wider brakes that i think are 2003/2004 vintage (I'm still waiting on the brakes to get here so i cant test this). so i suppose the screw pattern on the binding plate with the brakes will match the pattern on the skis. But will the heel pieces fit onto the older plates?

if the brakes/rear binding plate works, can i drill into the atomic plate to mount the toes?

Anyone ever dealt with this and have a good solution for me?

Thanks!

check with denver wholesale skis on ebay (search for atomic big daddy and you'll find the link to their ebay store)...the phone number is on there somewhere.
i believe they sell older big daddies with the NEOX binding but have swapped the plates around and made a special jig....

oh shit, sorry fez, if I had known that what you were doing, I could have told you!!

Yeah, the Neox is different - it was noted in one of those BD mounting threads on here somewhere, that you needed the older 6.14s to fit the plate pattern. And worse, to tell you the truth, I'm not even sure if those old 6.14 binding brake/heel dealies you picked up will go with the Neoxs. Maybe, but I don't know enough to know.

I'm sure it can worked out once you see it all, but let me know if I can be of any help in any case...

Yep Neox started last year. CR412 CR614 SX614 Race614 are what you are looking for. You should be able to find them pretty cheap? I would imagine there are people out there who would trade you strait up for some 614's

You know atomic had to change the hole patern for there hostage ski and bindings! Otherwise people would want to re-use the bindings for the 2002,3and 4 ski's

PM sent.

thanks guys, I bought the binders from evogear. they seem to have a pretty good return policy, and since their copy for the neox 614s said 'The NEOX 614 ski binding is compatible with all Atomic skis with mounting plates' i suspect they will let me retun them.

is this the atomic binding i want?



http://www.evogear.com/Ski%20Shop/At..._5210_790.aspx

<edit>Thanks MTT, looks like the race 614 will work for me then. gotta get this figured out, my heads are almost too bent to ski anymore </edit>

Originally Posted by fez

thanks guys, I bought the binders from evogear. they seem to have a pretty good return policy, and since their copy for the neox 614s said 'The NEOX 614 ski binding is compatible with all Atomic skis with mounting plates' i suspect they will let me retun them.

is this the atomic binding i want?



http://www.evogear.com/Ski%20Shop/At..._5210_790.aspx

<edit>Thanks MTT, looks like the race 614 will work for me then. gotta get this figured out, my heads are almost too bent to ski anymore </edit>

Yep just like that. I think they even make one that is a color match for the BigDaddy If you care about that sort of thing

i skied for three seasons in a bright red patagonia ice nine one piece suit because they had it in my size at the outlet and it was only $79 bucks. i dont really care about that sort of thing.

just ordered the binders, will deal with returning the other ones tomorrow.

thanks guys!

Originally Posted by fez

just ordered the binders

Did you specify that they were going onto Big Daddies?

While the actual bindings are the same the base plate for the race versions (like the one in the picture) is different; lower in height. This means that if you've ordered a Race614 (red) or sx614(greenishyellow) you'll get the lowrise base with narrow brakes. As you allready seem to have the correct heel base plate with wide brakes it doesn't matter what width you get, but you should make sure it's called RIDE614, because that'll come with the correct height toe base plate.

Also the AFD devide / hold-it-all-together plate on the race and sx bindings are lower and can't be used on the higher ride bindings.

Hope this helps (though it might mean realizing that you've once again ordered the wrong binding?)

Originally Posted by Telepath

Did you specify that they were going onto Big Daddies?

While the actual bindings are the same the base plate for the race versions (like the one in the picture) is different; lower in height. This means that if you've ordered a Race614 (red) or sx614(greenishyellow) you'll get the lowrise base with narrow brakes. As you allready seem to have the correct heel base plate with wide brakes it doesn't matter what width you get, but you should make sure it's called RIDE614, because that'll come with the correct height toe base plate.

Also the AFD devide / hold-it-all-together plate on the race and sx bindings are lower and can't be used on the higher ride bindings.

Hope this helps (though it might mean realizing that you've once again ordered the wrong binding?)

Hum, If i was misstaken here I appologize, There is a hight differnce between the Ride (R-614 and the Race / Race 614. But i was under the impression that the stack hight was in the base of the bindings not the toe and brake plate.

The Brake assembly attaches to the base of the binding, with exeption of Brake arm width, they all look the same to me?

Telepath you sure?

Race 614





I could not get a close up of the 2003 Ride (R-614)

Here is the R-412 With the Same 24MM hight.


Images borrowed from dwskis.com a company that I reccomend.

Originally Posted by MTT

But i was under the impression that the stack hight was in the base of the bindings not the toe and brake plate.

The Brake assembly attaches to the base of the binding, with exeption of Brake arm width, they all look the same to me?

Telepath you sure?

The actual heel and toe binding are the same, differences in stack height is in the plates (the parts that are screwed onto the ski after which the bindings are slid into these plates).

If you are getting a Ride614 for a Sugar Daddy or Stomp all you need to do is put away the 99mm or 88mm heel plate/brake assembly and use the 107mm one you got for the Big Daddies instead. If however you get a race/sx 614 with the lowrise plates you will also need an additional taller toe plate and a set of taller AFD/hold-it-together (the black one in the pics are low and won't work with the wide brakes/high risers, the transparant orange one is the right one) plates.

I am very sure of this as I do have a bunch of various Atomic binders here, including both race, sx and ride versions. For some reason Atomic mostly sends me the Race1018 version with the skis instead of the Ride1018, so by now I'm getting pretty used to ordering high toe plates and AFD devices (something that is NOT easy to do).

fucking great. looks like i have yet another pair of the wrong bindings on the way.

wtf is the point of making a plate to binding interface like this if they are going to make different plates and bindings for every ski and for every year? bastards.

Originally Posted by Telepath

The actual heel and toe binding are the same, differences in stack height is in the plates (the parts that are screwed onto the ski after which the bindings are slid into these plates).

If you are getting a Ride614 for a Sugar Daddy or Stomp all you need to do is put away the 99mm or 88mm heel plate/brake assembly and use the 107mm one you got for the Big Daddies instead. If however you get a race/sx 614 with the lowrise plates you will also need an additional taller toe plate and a set of taller AFD/hold-it-together (the black one in the pics are low and won't work with the wide brakes/high risers, the transparant orange one is the right one) plates.

I am very sure of this as I do have a bunch of various Atomic binders here, including both race, sx and ride versions. For some reason Atomic mostly sends me the Race1018 version with the skis instead of the Ride1018, so by now I'm getting pretty used to ordering high toe plates and AFD devices (something that is NOT easy to do).

I actually bought the 99mm brakes, figured those would bend out to 107mm easier than the 76mms on the neox.

So here are my next questions:
will the race 614's fit the hole pattern and fit on the ski ok and just need to bend the brakes?

if so, can i pull the brake off the heel plates i bought and attach those to the lower rise race 614 heel plates (all these plates are confusing!)?

anyone have a lead where i can pick up a toe plate to match the 99mm brake heel plates i bought?

dammit i thought this would be so easy!

Originally Posted by fez

I actually bought the 99mm brakes, figured those would bend out to 107mm easier than the 76mms on the neox.

So here are my next questions:
will the race 614's fit the hole pattern and fit on the ski ok and just need to bend the brakes?

if so, can i pull the brake off the heel plates i bought and attach those to the lower rise race 614 heel plates (all these plates are confusing!)?

anyone have a lead where i can pick up a toe plate to match the 99mm brake heel plates i bought?

99mm (Sugar Daddy) brakes fit the BD pretty much without bending, maybe just a little yank. I've used those myself as well.

Apart from that a total rebend of Atomic brakes is hard work. I don't know if the steel is hardened differently or just larger diameter, but it's hard (if at all possible).

Hole pattern is the same, you can ski them with brakes flat. AFAIRemember the wide brakes are fastened with a little torx screw (back up bindings are buried below so much windsurf gear I can't really check now) but the narrow ones are riveted in. Or the opposite way around. Considered it but decided not to start drilling out rivets.

Remember that if you start looking for new toe plates you'll need taller AFD's also.

A few years ago I looked for toe plates in what seemed like every frikkin skishop from Baker to SLC and ended up just buying some Ride614's just to get some plates for my 1018's. Lose plates are hard to come by, but maybe someone that sells Atomic will swap your new race614s for some ride614s?

Originally Posted by fez

wtf is the point of making a plate to binding interface like this if they are going to make different plates and bindings for every ski and for every year? bastards.

One sure does wonder. Probably one of the major reasons why they dropped plates on the AFT / Freeride series for 05.

You could just do what every other maggots apparantly does and get some Salomon bindings, remove the plate and go. Makes the skis considerably lighter too.

Fez:

Sorry I screwed you up on this. I know you are gonna get your money squared away, but that does not get you on snow any faster. I am hoping you can canx the Race binding order and still have traction on your card to order Ride (R-614's) They are 180$ from dwskis.

Again I don't post in tech talk unless I am pretty dam sure I know the answer, I thought I had it here. Again appologies.

thanks MTT, im going to call evogear right now and cancel the race 614 order if i can.
do you have info for dwskis? i get a placeholder page when i try to go to http://www.dwskis.com (could be our damn corporate web cache though)

<edit>found the ebay store</edit>

Fez, they have a brick and morter store, but host on Ebay

Here they are

http://stores.ebay.com/Denver-Wholesale-Skis

What ended up happening with the bindings? Were you able to swap out your order? Did denver whole sale deliver? And how do you like the old Big Daddies?

i send back the bindings. actually just bought some solly 914s that i am going to mount on the big daddies without the plate. its a little tight, but some dremel work on the plastic shims for the 914s they should fit.

i tore my acl last season before i got a chance to mount or ski the big daddies, so it will be a bit longer before i get to try them out.

Atomic had the same hole pattern for 20 years. They changed the pattern. What year should they have done that in? How many times have Salomon's changed in the same time? A shop sold you bindings and skis that are not compatible and you blame the manufacturer, incredible. The lengths people will go to rationalizing their 'good deal' over the internet. If you walked into a shop and got this service would you still let it wash and lay the blame elsewhere? Don't really think the brakes would have presented a problem whether Ride or Race at least not compared to the problem finding the plate has no substance where the Salomon screws go.

I don't think you will have any problems with a direct mount. I think they ski better without the plate anyway. Just use the smaller drill bit.

Originally Posted by L7

Atomic had the same hole pattern for 20 years. They changed the pattern. What year should they have done that in? How many times have Salomon's changed in the same time? A shop sold you bindings and skis that are not compatible and you blame the manufacturer, incredible. The lengths people will go to rationalizing their 'good deal' over the internet. If you walked into a shop and got this service would you still let it wash and lay the blame elsewhere? Don't really think the brakes would have presented a problem whether Ride or Race at least not compared to the problem finding the plate has no substance where the Salomon screws go.

bitch.

i dont blame anyone. im not rationalizing anything. a shop did not sell me incompatible bindings and skis over the internet. i bought skis over the internet, and i bought bindings over the internet. i didnt ask anyone for advice or expect them to check the purchase. i assumed that since atomic had a plate/binding interface that the goal was to increase compatibility and decrease the number of items in their supply chain. i was just surprised that the actual goal was exactly the opposite. excuse me for overestimating the efficiency of atomic. when would i have changed the mounting pattern? how about the year i was coming out with a standardized plate system for my skis and bindings.

the lengths people will go to sound like self righteous pricks on the internet seems to be more the point of your post.

Originally Posted by L7

Atomic had the same hole pattern for 20 years. They changed the pattern. What year should they have done that in? How many times have Salomon's changed in the same time?

Salomon has had the same hole pattern for a long time. You only need one jig to mount any Salomon adult non-demo binding that is on the current indemnification list. Tyrolia's hole pattern has been the same for a long time, despite radically redesigning their bindings in the last few years. Marker seems to come up with new hole patterns every other year, but who cares, because it's Marker.

Also, every new Atomic plate I've seen has holes for Neox and the older style bindings.

Originally Posted by Plakespear

Also, every new Atomic plate I've seen has holes for Neox and the older style bindings.

Every new one does but he bought skis from before the Neox was out so no holes for Neox.