Touring Meals/Snacks

[jables]

One common theme of people's touring snacks is carbs. Curious if everyone who lists these carb heavy snacks also consumes bread/carbs as apart of their daily diet, or just ramp up for big days burning lots of calories. I personally lowered my bread consumption a few years ago and it had positive affects for me. If I eat higher quality bread it doesn't wreck me, but as delicious as some cheap honey weat bread/waffles/bagles are they will not treat me well.

Anyone having luck with low carb snacks and diets for big calorie days?

FWIW, I know there are a TON of opinions and "studies that show.." out there. Not looking to open a can of worms here, just curious what the mag collective has luck with.

[tellybele]

Chick-O-Sticks

[Pinned]

One common theme of people's touring snacks is carbs. Curious if everyone who lists these carb heavy snacks also consumes bread/carbs as apart of their daily diet, or just ramp up for big days burning lots of calories. I personally lowered my bread consumption a few years ago and it had positive affects for me. If I eat higher quality bread it doesn't wreck me, but as delicious as some cheap honey weat bread/waffles/bagles are they will not treat me well.

Anyone having luck with low carb snacks and diets for big calorie days?

FWIW, I know there are a TON of opinions and "studies that show.." out there. Not looking to open a can of worms here, just curious what the mag collective has luck with.

Carbs are really essential for high output / high intensity activities. If you're staying mostly in Zone 2 you can probably burn fat and go low carb. That's a really simplistic approach - but you can totally do big efforts without a ton of carbs, it just depends on the intensity.

Cycling is my main sport and there has been a lot of emphasis on nutrition over the last few years. I've also been particularly interested in it, especially some of the ketone based stuff that's being coupled with the ever higher carb intake.

It sounds like you might have a sensitivity to flour or possibly pesticides (which are found in almost all cheap wheat products). Worth getting it checked out, or just sticking to high quality bread or imported wheat products. Cheap bread / pasta makes me feel pretty meh too - quality stuff without Roundup in it doesn't mess with me. But, bread is not really a carb source I'd look to during activity - too slowly digested. It's fine in advance or after activity to keep carb levels up, but you can also do that with lots of other sources: rice / rice noodles, beans, lentils, potatoes, oatmeal, fruits, sugars, etc.

Rice is a more rapidly deployed carb for use during activity - so rice bars are a good option and they may be easier on your stomach. Those are popular among World Tour cyclists. Lot of bars / carb mixes are available now for really high intensity that are insanely dense. Some of the mixes / drinks can be 300g+ of carb in a bottle. I wouldn't go that extreme with the carbs unless you're doing some sort of rando racing. But between the drink mixes, good quality bars (oat, fruit based, etc), candy bars, and options like homemade rice bars there are a ton of ways to get easily / quickly digested carbs.

You could also look into some ketone options to supplement with - pretty cool stuff and getting less expensive to try out. HVMN is one of the popular brands. I've been using that for low intensity morning rides, it does what they say in the marketing stuff.

Anyways - I think it all comes down to the intensity of the activity. If you're getting out of Zone 2 heart rates then you probably want some carbs to keep going.

[ptavv]

One common theme of people's touring snacks is carbs. Curious if everyone who lists these carb heavy snacks also consumes bread/carbs as apart of their daily diet, or just ramp up for big days burning lots of calories. I personally lowered my bread consumption a few years ago and it had positive affects for me. If I eat higher quality bread it doesn't wreck me, but as delicious as some cheap honey weat bread/waffles/bagles are they will not treat me well.

Anyone having luck with low carb snacks and diets for big calorie days?

FWIW, I know there are a TON of opinions and "studies that show.." out there. Not looking to open a can of worms here, just curious what the mag collective has luck with.

the primary physiology reason that people tend towards carb heavy snacks and meals while doing higher output activities is twofold:

simple carbohydrates are much more easily absorbed / handled than complex carbs or fats (protein is a sort of weird middle ground digestion wise; utilization wise during exertion a large fraction of it gets converted to carbohydrates, during recovery its used for protein synthesis). because simple carbohydrates are so much easier to metabolize they require a lot less blood flow to utilize, whereas large amounts of complex carbohydrates or lots of fats can "steal" blood flow (and its oxygen) from exercising muscles while the body does the work of digestion in addition to exercise

the other reason for carb-heavy meals during exercise, even in athletes who are "fat adapted" is that we carry (comparatively) few available calories as carbohydrates. the "prototypical" 75-ish kg adult male carries ~2000 kcal of glycogen (~400 in the liver, ~1600 in muscle) -- this doesn't scale much as most people who're "heavier" than the prototype for their height gain that weight in adipose tissue, though having more muscle mass than "typical" will mean some increase in glycogen, but not a lot (10-20% maybe).

comparatively, that same 75kg adult who has a body fat of 15% has an effectively unlimited supply of calories from fats (.15 * 75 = ~11 kg of fat -> 11000 grams of fat at 9 kcal/gram = 100,000 kcal). sure, it's technically true that there's some essential fat amount (canonically 3% for men, 12% for women) but the point is that nearly every American is carrying enough fat to survive for weeks

that discrepancy is important because, certain tissues in our body (mainly our brain) require carbohydrates all the time and our muscles (even if we're very "fat adapted*) are still going to use up some carbohydrates at a higher-than-basal rate during exercise… doing long efforts will benefit from some replacement

[bennymac]

the primary physiology reason that people tend towards carb heavy snacks and meals while doing higher output activities is twofold:

simple carbohydrates are much more easily absorbed / handled than complex carbs or fats (protein is a sort of weird middle ground digestion wise; utilization wise during exertion a large fraction of it gets converted to carbohydrates, during recovery its used for protein synthesis). because simple carbohydrates are so much easier to metabolize they require a lot less blood flow to utilize, whereas large amounts of complex carbohydrates or lots of fats can "steal" blood flow (and its oxygen) from exercising muscles while the body does the work of digestion in addition to exercise

the other reason for carb-heavy meals during exercise, even in athletes who are "fat adapted" is that we carry (comparatively) few available calories as carbohydrates. the "prototypical" 75-ish kg adult male carries ~2000 kcal of glycogen (~400 in the liver, ~1600 in muscle) -- this doesn't scale much as most people who're "heavier" than the prototype for their height gain that weight in adipose tissue, though having more muscle mass than "typical" will mean some increase in glycogen, but not a lot (10-20% maybe).

comparatively, that same 75kg adult who has a body fat of 15% has an effectively unlimited supply of calories from fats (.15 * 75 = ~11 kg of fat -> 11000 grams of fat at 9 kcal/gram = 100,000 kcal). sure, it's technically true that there's some essential fat amount (canonically 3% for men, 12% for women) but the point is that nearly every American is carrying enough fat to survive for weeks

that discrepancy is important because, certain tissues in our body (mainly our brain) require carbohydrates all the time and our muscles (even if we're very "fat adapted*) are still going to use up some carbohydrates at a higher-than-basal rate during exercise… doing long efforts will benefit from some replacement

Other than the delicious taste - is there any real benefit to bringing fatty food along vs simple carbs for a day trip

[Darren Jakal]

We called it “gastric emptying time” in the 1980s, but it’s essentially the same as glycemic index or how fast the carbs leave the gut and get into the blood stream.

The plan was to get the carbs but slow it down to stop an insulin spike, so we would always try to take the carbs with some fat and protein and that would do the trick.

Half a baguette, some hard cheese, a bit of dried meat like bresaola and some nuts and dried fruit (or an apple). I also take some Honey Stinger Energy Chews (or torrone if I have some) and I used to take some chocolate but I have become sensitive to it. A half litre of hot tea and a litre of body temperature tea ( usually Rooibos).

[ptavv]

Other than the delicious taste - is there any real benefit to bringing fatty food along vs simple carbs for a day trip

maybe/kind of, but not in a strictly physiologic sense

the most important reason is that bringing food you don't want to eat is doubly wasteful (you're spending energy carrying it [instead of something you would eat that'd give you some benefit] and also not eating it [getting no benefit from it]). the longer or more remote the effort, the more important it is to carry stuff you *will actually eat* with less regard for optimizing glycemic index or macro nutrient distribution or whatever. super optimizing on the most weight efficient way to carry the most optimal macro nutrient mixture of food that tastes like garbage and has you hauling it, not eating it, and running an excess calorie deficit is way worse than sacrificing some optimization but actually eating, ya know?

the other reason to bring "real food" or things with mixtures of macros is that they make you feel more satiated and will help to tamp down the catabolism that your body will be doing anyway. mixing simple carbohydrates with fats, proteins, and/or fiber will often blunt the massive insulin spike that you get from eating just a bag of M&Ms or whatever. the insulin spike itself isn't the big deal, but the hypoglycemic crash ~60 minutes later can suck quite a lot, and mixed macro profiles will usually smooth that spike out a bit and decrease the odds (or intensity) of a reactive hypoglycemia event

[bennymac]

so ignoring taste/palatability - carbs plus fiber and eating something at every transition could suffice

To be clear I’ve been a real food advocate since the late 90s doing 7 day adventure races - need food you’re actually gonna want to eat - especially when you feel like ass

[singlecross]

I usually bring a couple cans of these and a bag of cashews. Sometimes apples and a small squeeze tube of peanut butter. Squeeze tubes of baby food are handy. Pickled eggs for the fart potential. And Werthers hard candies for the skin up, don’t inhale too hard and choke on one… keeps me below threshold

[powdork]

beer

[North]

Standard meat, cheese, and chocolate guy out here. Usually an energy bar for two for backup. I like Lara. CLIF mint is only standard clif I can eat + it has caffeine. The nut butter versions are generally more tolerable. Sometimes I'll make a panini. Tried homemade pizza rolls for a hut trip last year and they weren't as awesome as they sounded. I try to add more salt during the spring (potato chips usually). Leftovers (pad thai, pizza, etc) are great if available. Bacon happens sometimes but I really like the idea of a bacon + brie + waffle + apple concoction. Winter is the easy one. I have hard time keeping it creative during summer activities.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I usually don't take many breaks these days unless I'm waiting for spring snow to soften, and I don't care much about what I'm eating while skiing, so I want it to be effortless to prepare, and easy to eat while moving: cured meat, nuts, lemon Lara bars, purple caffeine Gu and a Tailwind-like product if I'm going to be pushing. If it's a day when I'm likely to be out from dark to dark I've been known to throw a McDonalds sausage biscuit or two (no egg) in my pack for a compact hunk of calories.

[Iwantmy2dollars]

I'll usually have a Pro Bar or 2 in my pack and a thermos of tea. They are high in carbs so usually only eat half at a sitting. One thing to know is - fat has almost twice the calories of carbs and protein - per gram. So when carrying food for big days or overnight, attention to fat content (and water weight) is important for caloric needs.

[Buster Highmen]

Smoked salmon, shallots, basil on rosemary sourdough bread, occasionally with mayo.
Chocolate.
Trail mix.

[Boissal]

Home made trail mix for short days, basically some unsweetened granola with added walnuts, almonds, chocolate chips, and salt. I salt more later in the season when it gets sweaty. Depending on what dried fruit I have on hand I add some to the mix or take it separately (dried bananas are dope).
For big days I'll throw cubed cheddar, hard boiled egg, and roasted chicken in a ziploc, add a bit of oil, and put that in the thigh pocket of my pants to dip into as needed.
Fat is key for touring for me, low intensity long effort doesn't mix well with the quick burst of energy I get from sugar. Exception is made for caffeinated chocolate GUs, love those things.
If it's heinously cold I bring tea and honey, seems like a single gulp warms up the core for a while and helps wash things down.

I have buddies who fuel entirely on gummy bears and 7/11 greasy shit food. That stuff would have me curled in a ball.

[rpearce1475]

Pro bars are my go to for most activities. I've found over the years I can't tolerate any "real" food during prolonged outings, it makes me feel sick. I pack a pro bar for every 2 hours I'll be out and a nut heavy trail mix for some more protein and fat if it's going to be over 4 hours. Finally a pack of clif shot blocks with caffeine for the long full day events. I've found this to work really well for me over the past 10 years of mountain biking, trail running, splitboarding and snowboarding.

[tang]

In addition to standard bar or two, I've added a can of tinned fish - protein, and makes for a nice euro vibe

[MakersTeleMark]

I hope you mofos pack some serious tp kit.

[Mex]

Some sort of home made Miso/ broth in a light weight thermos and then Euro guide style Hard cheese and salami style meat.

That's my go to. With maybe a couple bars of some sort or gels depending on what I have at the house. Sometimes the thermos might have vanilla chai tea.

[CMartin348]

Bacon is a game changer!

[jables]

I suck and I missed these two solid post. Thank you both for taking the time to reply insightfully, not too common around here

It sounds like you might have a sensitivity to flour or possibly pesticides (which are found in almost all cheap wheat products). Worth getting it checked out, or just sticking to high quality bread or imported wheat products. Cheap bread / pasta makes me feel pretty meh too - quality stuff without Roundup in it doesn't mess with me. But, bread is not really a carb source I'd look to during activity - too slowly digested. It's fine in advance or after activity to keep carb levels up, but you can also do that with lots of other sources: rice / rice noodles, beans, lentils, potatoes, oatmeal, fruits, sugars, etc.

.

I had some blood and gut work done, maybe 6-7 years ago, and the results showed I had a minor gluten allergy, which my wife scoffed at. I cut back on all bread, pasta, pizza etc and naturally I lost some weight (~7-10 pounds on ~188 pound) and felt better BUT this wasn't high quality food. I maintained carb intake but also found myself eating things marketed as "Gluten Free" which were filled with all sort of junk and would make me feel much worse: ie "gluten free pancake mix" and some cheap PB and BOOM i am wrecked.

My wife has been milling flour at home and baking with it and I can gorge on anything of the sort and feel great. She touts all sorts of nutritional benefits from fresh milled flour. We agree with your sentiment about cheap bread products and low quality pesticide ridden domestic wheat. I recommend everyone to get "bread-pilled" and mill your own stuff, it is more work but much more satisfying.

the primary physiology reason that people tend towards carb heavy snacks and meals while doing higher output activities is twofold:

More good points. I had heard/read/listened to people talk about high fat diets/ketosis diets and supposedly they yield great results, but I imagine that it is different for everyone. Also, maintaining a level of ketosis is a challenge. I find that when I am really putting in the effort, my body craves carbs, sugars, just calories in general. I just have to watch what I consume.

[SB]

+1 beer

[SB]

And this.

Bacon.

[QuakerSimplyOats]

Other than the delicious taste - is there any real benefit to bringing fatty food along vs simple carbs for a day trip

For an overnight trip that is cold I try to bring some fat...Slower and longer burn rate. I will pound some nuts or peanut butter and then do to bed. Keeps you warm through the night!

[MakersTeleMark]

For an overnight trip that is cold I try to bring some fat...Slower and longer burn rate. I will pound some nuts or peanut butter and then do to bed. Keeps you warm through the night!

Who are you and why are you posting in random threads?