Why do proforms suck now?

[TAFKALVS]

It’s not that they are worse now, but 50% off doesn’t mean the same thing when jackets and boots are > $1000

[SirVicSmasher]

a wise man told me never wait in line and never pay retail.

Getting at cost through the shop is a lot cheaper than proform these days .


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[SnowMachine]

Why are you shop guys so grumpy about ski instructors/coaches getting a pro-form? What am I missing? I take your kids and teach them to ski while you're doing hot laps and I do it for paltry wages. I appreciate the discounts I get. I also take advantage of closeouts. Wherever I can get a deal on gear that I want.

FWIW, I've been on both sides. I worked retail at bicycle shops in my formative years.

I've also been fortunate enough to be a sponsored athlete. Sometimes I think the retail guys get a better deal than I was getting ("free").

[jackstraw]

Greed by the companies? Or greed by every random schmuck that thinks they deserve deep discounts off of retail?

Corporations. Random schmuck? Are we talking about shop rats? Because that's who I'm talking about. The core folks in the trenches earning shit wages because of their passion. How other random people snag proforms is new to me. That didn't happen or I was unaware when I received pro deals.

Maybe a small indie company that sells thru distribution still gives a good deal to industry folks.

Conglomerates like Amer/Anta, Authentic Brands, can go fuck themselves. Rossi and Technica groups are smaller but plenty big enough to give a pro deals to the dirtbags making min wage.

[Meadow Skipper]

I’m just spitballing here, but maybe the companies don’t feel like they’re getting benefits proportionate to the amount of effort required. IOW, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

[GoldenBC]

I’m just spitballing here, but maybe the companies don’t feel like they’re getting benefits proportionate to the amount of effort required. IOW, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

To say that while ski instructors and ski guides get killer discounts, shows you don't understand retail nor how most skis are sold.

[GoldenBC]

It’s not that they are worse now, but 50% off doesn’t mean the same thing when jackets and boots are > $1000

No. This is what I am saying. They are worse now. Much worse. And shop employees seem to get the worst prodeal of the lot, with the companies that differentiate.

[Meadow Skipper]

To say that while ski instructors and ski guides get killer discounts, shows you don't understand retail nor how most skis are sold.

I worked in a ski shop and as a pro patroller, both for years, so blow me jong.

That said, I still think the whole thing spiraled and too many non-experts (like your typical REI employees) and non-producers (like crappy first year instructors) weren’t getting product moved.

[phatty]

To say that while ski instructors and ski guides get killer discounts, shows you don't understand retail nor how most skis are sold.

C'mon man. Are you trying to say that instructors and guides don't influence skier buying decisions? That's idiotic. Yes, shop folks have lots of influence but I had multiple students talk to me about my skis and what might work for them back when I was teaching. Not like instructors are making a killing or much more than shop guys. They basically make minimum wage plus a pass. Pro deals was always one of the selling points when they were recruiting instructors.

I remember when shop guys would get better deals than instructors and I never had a problem with it. Agree that 40% or less off retail ain't that great.

[jackstraw]

Arguing nickels and dimes with regard to these corporations is comical to me. Anyone who has spent time in that world would agree. They piss more away on golf, wine, and dinners than all pro deals combined.

[GoldenBC]

C'mon man. Are you trying to say that instructors and guides don't influence skier buying decisions? That's idiotic. Yes, shop folks have lots of influence but I had multiple students talk to me about my skis and what might work for them back when I was teaching. Not like instructors are making a killing or much more than shop guys. They basically make minimum wage plus a pass. Pro deals was always one of the selling points when they were recruiting instructors.

I remember when shop guys would get better deals than instructors and I never had a problem with it. Agree that 40% or less off retail ain't that great.

Not saying that at all. I think ski instructors are a massive influencer, and guides can be too.

What I’m saying is that often, in Canada at least, and with many brands, is that pro deals in general suck and shop employees are getting the smallest deals of the bunch even though they have the most direct relationship to sales and are limited compared to others in which brands they have access to.

[lemonhead]

IMO the whole influencer marketing strategy has been the biggest factor. It's a lot easier to track sales via a custom discount code from some Instagram ski model than it is with a pro form. I used to work in the ski industry (school, patrol, and shop) and now outside the ski industry. I work in an area where social media influencers wouldn't traditionally impact my world and we had one super happy customer (who own their own) called us out in a positive way via tic toc. The person had a huge following and that exponentially expanded our volume.

[alpinevibes]

I just logged into a major ski brand's direct pro form sites for a small, cheap accessory. My "pro" price ended up 15% more expensive than their normal online price right now... wtf

[SnowMachine]

To say that while ski instructors and ski guides get killer discounts, shows you don't understand retail nor how most skis are sold.

Back to what I said previously: do you guys think that instructors and guides don't sell gear? People pay attention to what instructors and guides use. I've already had several calls asking what gear to buy for ski team kids for the upcoming year.

You ski shop folks are a grumpy bunch.

[SnowMachine]

C'mon man. Are you trying to say that instructors and guides don't influence skier buying decisions? That's idiotic. Yes, shop folks have lots of influence but I had multiple students talk to me about my skis and what might work for them back when I was teaching. Not like instructors are making a killing or much more than shop guys. They basically make minimum wage plus a pass. Pro deals was always one of the selling points when they were recruiting instructors.

I remember when shop guys would get better deals than instructors and I never had a problem with it. Agree that 40% or less off retail ain't that great.

Ha... I should have read your reply before I replied.

I coach because I like working with the kids and I appreciate the discounts I get on a family worth of ski expenses (free ski passes and discounted teams is worth it alone when you have a whole family involved). As for the money.... It's laughable. I actually told our head coach to keep my wages and split it up when they hired me on. He said that they couldn't do that.

IMO, the industry needs an enima, but not my dog, not my fight. I run my own business. Skiing is for fun.

[SnowMachine]

Not saying that at all. I think ski instructors are a massive influencer, and guides can be too.

What I’m saying is that often, in Canada at least, and with many brands, is that pro deals in general suck and shop employees are getting the smallest deals of the bunch even though they have the most direct relationship to sales and are limited compared to others in which brands they have access to.

Shop owners could just as easily pass along gear at cost to employees. I always allowed my employees to buy at my cost. My employees were always my biggest asset.

[SnowMachine]

I just logged into a major ski brand's direct pro form sites for a small, cheap accessory. My "pro" price ended up 15% more expensive than their normal online price right now... wtf

Amer denied me a pro-form. Oh well.....

[Velomayniac]

Way more than half the time I go into a shop, the reps don’t know jack shit. I’m sure the good ones know how to get good deals on new stuff, if not straight from the manufacturers.

[Ørion]

To say that while ski instructors and ski guides get killer discounts, shows you don't understand retail nor how most skis are sold.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this comment, but the couple people I've known who've worked shops in this industry have always had access to equivalent or better discounts than instructors. Is it different in Canada?

Which isn't to say its good for either, I buy used/last season a lot more often than I prodeal because the value just isn't there.

[ASmileyFace]

I just logged into a major ski brand's direct pro form sites for a small, cheap accessory. My "pro" price ended up 15% more expensive than their normal online price right now... wtf

This is the problem, not who deserves a better discount like y'all are arguing about. When your proform doesn't beat the "black friday" discount to the masses there is a problem.

Dealer cost+shipping is the way. My employer has an at cost deal for employees and a generous discount on stuff already in stock. The fact that retailers have to make up for the failings of the corporations is kind of a bummer though

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What’s the problem, they aren’t going to give stuff away? Buy whatever is the lowest price.

This thread sucks and reeks of entitlement. I have access to industry pro cards but rarely use them. Why would I if I can find stuff cheaper? Are they supposed to give gear away because you’re a (insert industry “pro”)?


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[Stuntmonkey]

The guys at the shops I frequent in Canada get cost through the shop or better. I know the Arcteryx pro deals year round are a solid 60% off retail, and the twice yearly patroller deals we get are similar but you have to compete for gear within a timeframe of release codes.

@GoldenBC do you get cost through the shop at all?

[SB]

It always seemed to me the reason people get proform is so they can tell everyone about all the stuff they got on proform.

[Marshal Olson]

This is in no way justifying, just sharing behind the curtain. The reality is that from many brand's perspectives, proform went from a "marketing expense" to a "revenue line". As such, with limited inventory allocation, they are maximizing return on limited inventory without paying attention to the impacts of opening proform up to those that shouldn't qualify. I don't see it as greed, but more just being asleep at the wheel.

If you work at a shop and meaningfully drive sales, then ask the rep if they can help you use the gear you sell. Some will help and some won't. If they can't or just refer you to the app that sucks, then it tells you all you need to know about how much that rep and their brand values your shop and your efforts, and they won't start valuing you until you start supporting other brands and their sell-through slips.

If you have worked long term at a shop, then check with your buyer to see if you can reserve your personal stuff on the pre-booking, ideally with demo dating/terms.

[Ørion]

(snip) The reality is that from many brand's perspectives, proform went from a "marketing expense" to a "revenue line". (/snip)

Very true. I know people in their first season buying their first set of ski gear "on prodeal" because they paid $40 to join a ski club.

Its "pro" in name-only now, just an alternative marketing scheme and the bar is so low the devil is tripping on it.