23/24 Gear Rumors

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

yeah, Shift 2.0 is pretty disappointing. More like 1.2. I was hoping for a major re-work, increase of elasticity, etc. But these changes are purely cosmetic, still a binding you can't charge with.

[rob stokes]

Shame they didn't change the brake pedal. Wet snow loves to pack in there and stop the heel engaging fully.

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[XavierD]

yeah, Shift 2.0 is pretty disappointing. More like 1.2. I was hoping for a major re-work, increase of elasticity, etc. But these changes are purely cosmetic, still a binding you can't charge with.

Lack of elasticity in the heel remains the biggest issue IMO for resort use. Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why they couldn’t figure out how to have STH heel elasticity on it - but I doubt it.

Especially when marker, cast, and even Fritschi all provide better heel retention.

[Bandit Man]

She said it right there in the video “Still the same Shift we know and love [to hate].”

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Lack of elasticity in the heel remains the biggest issue IMO for resort use. Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why they couldn’t figure out how to have STH heel elasticity on it - but I doubt it.

Especially when marker, cast, and even Fritschi all provide better heel retention.

I guess there is no motivation to spend extra $ on RnD. Still no other binding on the market which can be a direct competitor.

[TripleT]

Salomon the last five years: “The Shift is fine, all our athletes ski it hard everyday without issue. Only issues are when it’s improperly set up.”

Salomon this year: “Look we fixed (most of) the issues you definitely weren’t having with it the last five years. PLZ BUY”

THIS!

[bwcurran]

Lack of elasticity in the heel remains the biggest issue IMO for resort use. Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why they couldn’t figure out how to have STH heel elasticity on it - but I doubt it.

Especially when marker, cast, and even Fritschi all provide better heel retention.

The original prototype versions were pictured with an STH heel and rubber banded up brakes so the heel might have been a bit of an afterthought.

[waxman]

I guess there is no motivation to spend extra $ on RnD. Still no other binding on the market which can be a direct competitor.

Marker Duke PT has entered the chat.

CAST 2.0 with it's own dedicated Pivot will be here soon to chat as well.

[XavierD]

I guess there is no motivation to spend extra $ on RnD. Still no other binding on the market which can be a direct competitor.

There is plenty of motivation to spend on R&D. The shift 1.0 didn’t develop itself out of thin air and was pretty revolutionary 5 years ago. It also put the Amer North America sales team’s kids through college. It more has to do with where they are prioritizing R&D and what Salomon sees as issues regarding fixing and not.

I’m guessing the majority of shift users don’t have an issue with elasticity - but for me it remains the single largest issue preventing use.

[LeeLau]

Salomon this year: “Look we fixed (most of) the issues you definitely weren’t having with it the last five years. PLZ BUY”

Am really glad you said it; I thought I was being cynical and had expressed a solid meh

Shame they didn't change the brake pedal. Wet snow loves to pack in there and stop the heel engaging fully.

Totally fully agreed. There's also ice packing buildup around toes and AFD especially after bootpacking. Given how sensitive the shift is to snow/ice buildup would have been good to see some design differences to mitigate

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Marker Duke PT has entered the chat.

CAST 2.0 with it's own dedicated Pivot will be here soon to chat as well.

skiing in EU mostly, I can tell you that I've seen thousands of shifts, while dukes are rare. Pulling statistics out of my ass, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody told me that shifts to dukes sell 20:1. At least that's what I'm seeing with my eyes. I'm not even talking about CAST, which are absolute unicorns here. But I imagine they are more widespread in US.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

There is plenty of motivation to spend on R&D. The shift 1.0 didn’t develop itself out of thin air and was pretty revolutionary 5 years ago. It also put the Amer North America sales team’s kids through college. It more has to do with where they are prioritizing R&D and what Salomon sees as issues regarding fixing and not.

I’m guessing the majority of shift users don’t have an issue with elasticity - but for me it remains the single largest issue preventing use.

yeah, that's what I meant. Shifts are revolutionary, no doubt in that. Also they work for 90% of recreational skiers, who just don't charge hard, have 1 ski quiver for everything, etc... Also, Shifts still have no straight competitor, as Dukes are in a absolutely different weight class, price category, user friendliness level. CASTs are a thing, only ski geeks know about, also different weight class and price tag. So I guess, taking everything in consideration, there is no point in spending extra $ in a product that works (sells) well for most of users. I was just hoping that maybe with the creation of Stive, they will somehow adopt the heel, so that will solve elasticity issues.

Funny thing, I have a buddy who was sponsored by salomon. He told me like 2 years ago, that he saw Shift 2 with his own eyes early in 2020, just before COVID. And changes that he described were very similar to what is shown now. I think I saw a post on NS from some other amer-related guy, confirming that revised Shifts were ready before COVID and then they put in on hold. And later in 2022 they paused it for another year as stock level of shifts at the retailers was enormous.

[bennymac]

Maybe the better heel is being saved for 3.0 version - just like Apple does with phones.

[Spyderjon]

.......I wouldn't be surprised if somebody told me that shifts to dukes sell 20:1......

More like 200:1, at least in my shop and every other retailer I know.

[waxman]

More like 200:1, at least in my shop and every other retailer I know.

Which begs the question, how many Shifts (or Dukes for that matter) do you think actually go touring? Because IMHO if you're buying a Shift for the "one ski quiver" yet only ski lift service then you're a n idiot and/or the store you're buying them from has no ethics.

When the original Dukes came out I used to ask people on the lift how they liked the binding. Then follow up with "how much did your skins cost?" Most of the time I'd get a blank stare or "what's a skin?" Brutal.

[XavierD]

Which begs the question, how many Shifts (or Dukes for that matter) do you think actually go touring? Because IMHO if you're buying a Shift for the "one ski quiver" yet only ski lift service then you're a n idiot and/or the store you're buying them from has no ethics.

When the original Dukes came out I used to ask people on the lift how they liked the binding. Then follow up with "how much did your skins cost?" Most of the time I'd get a blank stare or "what's a skin?" Brutal.

I was still working for a retailer when the shift first came out. Hundreds of people bought shifts for skis they weren’t immediately panning on touring with, but might later. Shit many got them for their first pair of skis with the idea they might get into touring after learning how to ski. I won’t fault any shop for getting out of the way of that extra $400/sale if the customer doesn’t bite on a quick “this cheaper option might work just fine for now.”

I think most Dukes/Barrons/Shifts/PTs, shit even kingpins have been sold as an idea of touring not the practice of it. I wonder how many Shift Crampons Amer has made compared to the number of Shifts.

[Spyderjon]

The vast majority of my Shift sales are sold with skins'n'crampons. In the UK most have to fly to the snow so Shifts with skins and a 95-105mm underfoot one ski quiver or two skis fitted with QK inserts are a great choice. I also do a lot of QK dual mounts for Shifts and ATK's on the same ski. I've sold hundreds of pairs of Shifts with no problems whatsoever but I always take time to go though their set-up with the customer and if I'm shipping the skis mail order then the factory set-up leaflet is accompanied by my own written instructions fully detailing their set-up requirements etc.

[fleaches]

Which begs the question, how many Shifts (or Dukes for that matter) do you think actually go touring? Because IMHO if you're buying a Shift for the "one ski quiver" yet only ski lift service then you're a n idiot and/or the store you're buying them from has no ethics.

When the original Dukes came out I used to ask people on the lift how they liked the binding. Then follow up with "how much did your skins cost?" Most of the time I'd get a blank stare or "what's a skin?" Brutal.

I am surprised how often I encounter people in the wild touring on shifts and heavy ass skis, it might be the single most represented binding.

Was at a busy trailhead in Colorado last weekend and I swear a full 50% of the skis I saw in the parking lot had shifts on them.

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[f=ma]

Which begs the question, how many Shifts (or Dukes for that matter) do you think actually go touring? Because IMHO if you're buying a Shift for the "one ski quiver" yet only ski lift service then you're a n idiot and/or the store you're buying them from has no ethics.

When the original Dukes came out I used to ask people on the lift how they liked the binding. Then follow up with "how much did your skins cost?" Most of the time I'd get a blank stare or "what's a skin?" Brutal.

Why do you care what other people do with their money? lol

[Tailwind]

I started touring on frame bindings and squad 7’s in 2012. I had a lot of fun getting out in the backcountry.

This setup would make me miserable now… but people start somewhere. I also think the perception of safety matters. Some groups, like Blister, still swear by bindings like the shift as the right touring binding because it’s DIN certified and… honestly if you’re going to go do 1500 feet of very a few times per year it might make sense.

I had shifts and didn’t love them but didn’t have chronic issues. I had them on some Pescado’s and definitely wanted a pair of Pescado’s quiver killed for Pivots and ATK’s but they worked.

I am surprised how often I encounter people in the wild touring on shifts and heavy ass skis, it might be the single most represented binding.

Was at a busy trailhead in Colorado last weekend and I swear a full 50% of the skis I saw in the parking lot had shifts on them.

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[Conundrum]

I think a lot of folks who started touring "back in the day" did it on duck bills or Trekkers. Starting on frame bindings doesn't sound too bad compared to that. Starting on Shifts with decent boots is better than that probably.

[plugboots]

I think a lot of folks who started touring "back in the day" did it on duck bills or Trekkers. Starting on frame bindings doesn't sound too bad compared to that. Starting on Shifts with decent boots is better than that probably.

Well a lot did. But really, I’m old and we tele’d. AT stands for After Tele, after all.

[Eluder]

I think a lot of folks who started touring "back in the day" did it on duck bills or Trekkers. Starting on frame bindings doesn't sound too bad compared to that. Starting on Shifts with decent boots is better than that probably.

agreed. My progression was Trekkers>Duckbills>Dukes>Radicals... My wife was smart and just bought a pair of Dynafits; I was too dumb.

[Tailwind]

Ha good point. I dodged treckers - 2012 definitely isn’t old school.

I had 4-5 hut trips on duckbills as a kid (no other tele experiences) and going to frame bindings was “holy shit I can actually ski on hit trips”. Not a “good setup” but you can have plenty of fun on gear that’s not perfect.

IMO Shifts are not for people skiing 15+ days per year… but the vast majority of people don’t ski 15 days. I’m at 4 setups at this point and none of them have a crossover binding but each gets 15+ days per year.

I think a lot of folks who started touring "back in the day" did it on duck bills or Trekkers. Starting on frame bindings doesn't sound too bad compared to that. Starting on Shifts with decent boots is better than that probably.

[byates1]

Assuming shift2 same hole pattern?