Chicken Feet Thread 🐓

[gregL]

That may be the case too. What I said was from personal experience. I also could be remembering incorrectly.

If only they would build a boot off of the now discounted S/Max dimensions.

Regardless, it’s good to see another narrow-lasted touring boot hit the market.

Out of the box, I'd call the instep height of the Hawx Ultra and S/Pro Alpha a draw, but with some insteps the higher buckle placement of the Salomon might be more effective at making the fit snugger. The cuff diameter on the Salomon is very slightly larger, with the emphasis on "very" - these two are still by far the narrowest cuffs in the industry. Internal length on the Salomon is ~2mm longer (or feels like it).

[gregL]

. . . they won't bring back the lower instep lasts of the X/Max and S/Max because too many people complained about it. If a boot crunches your instep out of the box, you won't end up buying it.

[DoubleBogey]

Is Hawx smaller cuff diameter true for that whole line?

[gregL]

Is Hawx smaller cuff diameter true for that whole line?

Whole Hawx line? The Hawx Ultra is what we're talking about - the Hawx Prime and Hawx Magna are bigger and BIGGER yet.

[Steffenator]

These boot conversations are always going to go in circles until manufacturers become motivated to design solutions for modularity and fitment options. (Not just pho fitment flexibility and a lineup of differing models with unclear and undisclosed fitment objectives.)

For my wide forefoot and skinny ankle I'm having 85% success using a Mach1 130 HV and the following mods:

• stock liner with tongue moved (velcro) 1.5cm backward. I also ground the material thin around the 5th toe and 5th met.
• 4mm incompressible bootboard shim plus a 5mm semi-compressible foam shim. (under liners)
• custom insole (duh)
• forward punch at big toes
• many punches to gain space for 4th toe, 5th toe (pinky), and 5th met. All of them 50% successful.
• circular inside-ankle cutouts glued to exterior of both liners using 5mm foam. Approx 6" diameter with 1.5" center hole removed for ankle bone protrusion.
• floating 2x3" foam piece (5mm) that I wedge on top of the tongue after putting the boot on, pushing it all way down to occupy space at the bottom of the shin. I might sculpt and glue these next week.

The plastic seems compliant to punching at first, but has proven very resistant to permanently yielding additional width a the toes and met-last.

And by 85% success, what I mean is a very performance fit (0.5 finger shell fit) with immediate ankle response, minimal heel-lift, zero cuff slop, that I can tolerate for 3+ hours, opening the buckles on lifts. If I'm going to be in boots for 6+ hours or if its below -15C then I'll swap the 4mm bootboard spacer for a 2mm one, which is a massive change in performance (less) and comfort (more).

Boot fit is 25% of ski skill

[gregL]

The plastic seems compliant to punching at first, but has proven very resistant to permanently yielding additional width a the toes and met-last.

I haven't seen your foot, but I made the Mach 1 130 LV work for my 117mm wide foot (26.5) and the plastic stayed in place. Chances are you are not getting the plastic hot enough. Also, it's possible to punch for the maleolus (even if it's directly under the cuff rivet) but it takes some finesse. More space is better than more padding.

[DoubleBogey]

These boot conversations are always going to go in circles until manufacturers become motivated to design solutions for modularity and fitment options. (Not just pho fitment flexibility and a lineup of differing models with unclear and undisclosed fitment objectives.)

For my wide forefoot and skinny ankle I'm having 85% success using a Mach1 130 HV and the following mods:

• stock liner with tongue moved (velcro) 1.5cm backward. I also ground the material thin around the 5th toe and 5th met.
• 4mm incompressible bootboard shim plus a 5mm semi-compressible foam shim. (under liners)
• custom insole (duh)
• forward punch at big toes
• many punches to gain space for 4th toe, 5th toe (pinky), and 5th met. All of them 50% successful.
• circular inside-ankle cutouts glued to exterior of both liners using 5mm foam. Approx 6" diameter with 1.5" center hole removed for ankle bone protrusion.
• floating 2x3" foam piece (5mm) that I wedge on top of the tongue after putting the boot on, pushing it all way down to occupy space at the bottom of the shin. I might sculpt and glue these next week.

The plastic seems compliant to punching at first, but has proven very resistant to permanently yielding additional width a the toes and met-last.

And by 85% success, what I mean is a very performance fit (0.5 finger shell fit) with immediate ankle response, minimal heel-lift, zero cuff slop, that I can tolerate for 3+ hours, opening the buckles on lifts. If I'm going to be in boots for 6+ hours or if its below -15C then I'll swap the 4mm bootboard spacer for a 2mm one, which is a massive change in performance (less) and comfort (more).

Boot fit is 25% of ski skill

Have you tried Zipfits?

[Judo Chop!]

These boot conversations are always going to go in circles until manufacturers become motivated to design solutions for modularity and fitment options. (Not just pho fitment flexibility and a lineup of differing models with unclear and undisclosed fitment objectives.)

For my wide forefoot and skinny ankle I'm having 85% success using a Mach1 130 HV and the following mods:

• stock liner with tongue moved (velcro) 1.5cm backward. I also ground the material thin around the 5th toe and 5th met.
• 4mm incompressible bootboard shim plus a 5mm semi-compressible foam shim. (under liners)
• custom insole (duh)
• forward punch at big toes
• many punches to gain space for 4th toe, 5th toe (pinky), and 5th met. All of them 50% successful.
• circular inside-ankle cutouts glued to exterior of both liners using 5mm foam. Approx 6" diameter with 1.5" center hole removed for ankle bone protrusion.
• floating 2x3" foam piece (5mm) that I wedge on top of the tongue after putting the boot on, pushing it all way down to occupy space at the bottom of the shin. I might sculpt and glue these next week.

The plastic seems compliant to punching at first, but has proven very resistant to permanently yielding additional width a the toes and met-last.

And by 85% success, what I mean is a very performance fit (0.5 finger shell fit) with immediate ankle response, minimal heel-lift, zero cuff slop, that I can tolerate for 3+ hours, opening the buckles on lifts. If I'm going to be in boots for 6+ hours or if its below -15C then I'll swap the 4mm bootboard spacer for a 2mm one, which is a massive change in performance (less) and comfort (more).

Boot fit is 25% of ski skill

dude get zip fits

[Ørion]

dude get zip fits

As someone with a foot shaped like a pizza slice with a toothpick stuck in the pointy end, this is the way.

[Cocximus]

What about using these types of heel wedges for skinny ankles?

[PeaHead96]

As someone with a foot shaped like a pizza slice with a toothpick stuck in the pointy end, this is the way.

This is how I’ll forever reference my feet and legs from here on out

[PeaHead96]

Out of the box, I'd call the instep height of the Hawx Ultra and S/Pro Alpha a draw, but with some insteps the higher buckle placement of the Salomon might be more effective at making the fit snugger. The cuff diameter on the Salomon is very slightly larger, with the emphasis on "very" - these two are still by far the narrowest cuffs in the industry. Internal length on the Salomon is ~2mm longer (or feels like it).

With the new Hawx Ultra XTD being PU plastic, is it better suited for toe punches?

If so, how much room could I expect to get in the toe if I were working with a skilled fitter?

Preferably a toe punch that I’ll still be able to use with alpine bindings.

But also curious as to how much I could get if I didn’t need to worry about the toe piece on alpine bindings and was just using tech toes.

[gregL]

With the new Hawx Ultra XTD being PU plastic, is it better suited for toe punches?

If so, how much room could I expect to get in the toe if I were working with a skilled fitter?

Preferably a toe punch that I’ll still be able to use with alpine bindings.

But also curious as to how much I could get if I didn’t need to worry about the toe piece on alpine bindings and was just using tech toes.

Yes, it punches better than the previous Polyamide or Grilamid versions.

Most good fitters should be able to get 5-6mm without difficulty, but how effective the toe punch is varies depending on the shape of your forefoot - it's easy to do just the big toe, for instance, tougher if you need room all the way around the toes. Bindings are all different; with big toe punches the ones to watch out for are usually the Shift and the STH2 (you can't have contact between the toepiece wings and the shell).

[gregL]

What about using these types of heel wedges for skinny ankles?

Try it and see how it feels skiing with a bend in your ankle above the talus . . . also watch out if you have medial malleolus or navicular issues.

[Steffenator]

... I made the Mach 1 130 LV work for my 117mm wide foot (26.5) and the plastic stayed in place. Chances are you are not getting the plastic hot enough...

woah, you have a super wide feet for size 26.5. I'm guessing you own a punch press? I'll look into the temperature aspect further for sure.
I'm a US 12.5 or mondo 30, and I think 121mm across the mets. After 5 punches for width we got to about 120mm outside shell width, which is about 7mm wider than stock. That was two different shops, at both we discussed how to maximize the impact with temp/timing. Sooo wft ha. Annoying. I need wider!


This is technique #2:

Still looking for the right material to fit and epoxy over the holes. I have some automotive fiberglass with resin but its imprecise to work with and unsure how it will bond to the plastic, or how it feels about getting chipped at by ski edges...

[Judo Chop!]

I'm 128mm wide foot in a 29.5mondo, and have fit multiple LV boots with punching. Yours can definitely be done.
Next time go see Barry @ Ski Connexions in whistler.

...and get zipfits.

"automotive fiberglass" doesn't mean much, but it is likely polyester resin.
I would assume those boots you cut are Grilamid, so it won't bond properly.

I think Cyanoacrylate (ie. superglue, etc.) or polyamide glue will bond something like a fabric, but it's brittle so not for something stiff. You'll probably have to do lots of trial/error.

A good 2-part laminating epoxy (get the good stuff from fibertek, or amazon marine epoxy) might hold.

Or you could get some polyamide sticks and do a plastic weld. Not much to risk at this point.

[carlh]

How much does the cuff circumference change per boot size? I’m in a 28.5 hawx ultra and with the cuff was a bit tighter so wondering how much tighter a 27.5 would be.

[PeaHead96]

How much does the cuff circumference change per boot size? I’m in a 28.5 hawx ultra and with the cuff was a bit tighter so wondering how much tighter a 27.5 would be.

While the lower clogs of ski boots are different for every size — cuffs are the same for every two sizes.

26.5 and 27.5 share the same cuff. 28.5 and 29.5 share the same cuff… and so on

So, a 27.5 will be tighter cuff than the 28.5

You’re lucky, I measure 29.5 and ski a 28.5. No way I could fit a 27.5, but I sure wish I could because of the tighter cuff.