Ukraine

[schuss]

You said these companies “provoked” this conflict and THIS is your response? Everything you cited means that they somehow influenced the USA (and maybe Europe in your empty head) into “provoking” Russia. Literally parroting Putins main talking point, “Russia was provoked by the west”. Which is ridiculous and sounds moronic to everyone who isn’t a mouth breathing moron like yourself. It seems you know this or still have two working synapses that control decency so you try to obfuscate your argument by blaming the defense contractors. You’re either painfully gullible, sickeningly evil, or insanely naive. Maybe all three.

Xyz, like the other Russia apologists, conveniently forget two things like clockwork:
1. This was an invasion wholly done by Russia.
2. Biden actively declassified info in the weeks leading up to it as a last ditch "don't do this" with the aim of averting the conflict.

Are US defense companies benefiting? Sure, but that narrative also breaks down given there isn't continuous, full throated aid support from both parties (as one would expect of people getting paid). It also wasn't a 100% given as while we had some inklings, there wasn't the guarantee that US stuff was THAT superior to Russian, so it was a risk there too.

[MultiVerse]

I watched the Putin interview. It's little more than a retread of all the pro-Putin talking points that have already been made in this thread, including the CIA blew up Nord Stream. A lot of red meat for the fanboyz.

The most important point is "Vladimir Putin believes that Russia has a historic claim to parts of Western Ukraine." That's western Ukraine, not eastern Ukraine, !WESTERN! Ukraine. Despite all the false talk here and in the interview about Boris Johnson wrecking a nonexistent peace deal, Putin was absolutely unequivocally transparent about his ultimate goal of eventually occupying all of Ukraine.

.... If we just give Putin the Sudetenland he’ll stop there.... it'll be peace in our time.

[xyz]

Did Russia invade Ukraine? Yes. Did they start this war ? Yes.Why did they invade? I think we can agree that the Ukraine joining NATO plays a huge role. Just like Putin said in his interview with Tucker. When a country joins NATO, their military must meet NATO standards. How do you meet NATO standards? The only way is to arm yourself from the companies of the military industrial complex. So they have a lot to gain by expanding NATO. These are very large companies with with a shit tonne of influence on policy. That’s how they provoked Russia into this war. By pushing for NATO expansion towards Russia. If you poke a bear enough times eventually it’s going to hit back. So to expand NATO for 30 years then in last 2 weeks say don’t invade is kinda ridiculous.

Ukraine also bailed on the peace agreement, giving Russia less of reason not to invade.

Am I now a Putin apologist. I don’t know. I just want the war to stop. And arming Ukraine to the teeth obviously ain’t working. So why do more of what’s not working? Other than to appease your defence contractor overlords.



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[PNWbrit]

Am I now a Putin apologist.

Yes.

the Ukraine

Right there.

[Robik]

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 breaking their own Budapestum agreement and no NATO talks were on the table until recently.
Finland actually joined with no consequences

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[MultiVerse]

I think we can agree that the Ukraine joining NATO plays a huge role.

Ukraine also bailed on the peace agreement, giving Russia less of reason not to invade.

We can all agree XYZ is a badly informed and an undeniably stupid Putin apologist. Before war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by his own aide Dmitry Kozak in which Ukraine agreed not to join NATO:

"Kozak, told Putin, that he believed the deal he had hammered out removed the need for Russia to pursue a large-scale occupation of Ukraine. Kozak's recommendation to Putin to adopt the deal.

despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped.

Another individual interviewed by Reuters, who helped in the post-invasion talks, said discussions fell apart in early March when Ukrainian officials understood Putin was committed to pressing ahead with the large-scale invasion."


TLDR: Like all Putin apologists XYX is completely wrong on the facts

[ex-powderbroker]

NATO membership was not a popular idea until very recently in Ukraine. This chart doesn’t look like causis belli outside of the kremlin:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2017/06/...h-infographic/

[LongShortLong]

Ukraine not joining NATO played some role. If in some unlikely alternate timeline, Ukraine had joined, Putin may have thought twice about invading, and may not have done it. OTOH, Putin rants endlessly about the decay of the west and NATO, so he may have invaded anyway in the hopes of weakening or destroying NATO.

I don't think xyz is making a legitimate argument about wanting peace. Wanting to hear Tucker is the tell for me. Theoretically, someone could be a peacenik, and not be aware that both Putin and Tucker are dishonest. But xyz is older than the core of the commune living peacenik demographic, and he's been active in this thread, where there's been plenty of argument and references from which to educate himself. And plenty of time to think. So I don't think he's a naive peacenik. I accept that a few words in a forum is not the same as knowing a man, so I may be wrong.

I also want peace. I believe the best path is to quickly and adequately arm Ukraine so they can push the Russians out. That sets the best example and deterrent for Russia and for others. It also minimizes conventional and nuclear weapons proliferation. The best time was two years ago. The next best time is now.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Heh:



Video clip: https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

More importantly, for those who somehow didn’t realize this already:



https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[Meconium]

Soviet Union legacy, not NATO threat.

[grinch]

red deer rod

Too good. Thats it for sure. Is he actually from red deer? That would make a lot of sense. I think theyve been spiking 'berta water with kool aid for a few yrs now

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[twat]

The interview is showing russias weaknesses. It doesn’t portrait Vladimir as the big leader everybody is afraid of.
Like Russia cannot be defeated by Ukraine. Dammn…. This should be obvious!
But putin could not use the platform to shine!
The whole strong man narrative is missing. The whole the western world fears me is missing.
stop helping Ukraine is super weak statement for the big Russian army.

[schuss]

Regardless, NATO is a defensive pact, not an offensive one, so you only get big mad about it if you're planning on attacking someone in it.
Getting mad about Ukraine in NATO is say "I'm mad because now I can't just invade them".

I'll also point out Russia's actions have prompted way more NATO expansion than anyone was even pushing for, so great own goal there.

[riser4]

Regardless, NATO is a defensive pact, not an offensive one, so you only get big mad about it if you're planning on attacking someone in it.
Getting mad about Ukraine in NATO is say "I'm mad because now I can't just invade them".

I'll also point out Russia's actions have prompted way more NATO expansion than anyone was even pushing for, so great own goal there.

.

This.

[Skistack]

CIA rejected Tucker for being a future Russian asset? Those guys are good at their jobs.


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[riser4]

CIA rejected Tucker for being a future Russian asset? Those guys are good at their jobs.


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Damn good.

[J. Barron DeJong]

So did Cono and XYZ watch the interview? Seem quiet today.

[skaredshtles]

So did Cono and XYZ watch the interview? Seem quiet today.

They're probably busy with furious masterbashun. WHILE they are watching the interview.

[J. Barron DeJong]

They're probably busy with furious masterbashun. WHILE they are watching the interview.

[ex-powderbroker]

the goon squad

[highangle]

Guys, this is just Poot's way of telling us we get Tucker back too when we vote Trump/RusskiMirakin Party Election24 where "feex" already in.

[twat]

it is tucker Carlson‘s big day.
I am sure 99% of Europeans did not know him before.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/17...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[Cono Este]

Let’s assume Russia will not apologize and leave on their own, HOW DOES UKRAINE DEFEAT RUSSIA?

Not move the battle line to the pre 2014 border, cause that means shit, how do they DEFEAT RUSSIA?

Cause all I remember, when I read my grandads RAF log book, 99% of his high explosives were dropped inside of Germany, ballbearing plants, oil refineries, submarine pens, even civilian population centers.

Saturday special, No insults for one day, serious question.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Make it too painful for the Russian people to continue to fight and die for Putin.

Send Ukraine what they need. ASAP.