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09-04-2005, 01:10 AM #1
Gore Tex XCR vs Regular/Old Gore Tex
Anyone have an opinion on whether there is a different between these two? I'm looking for more than the typical marketing BS as I know XCR is SUPPOSED to be more breathable. Is it? How much more? Any more waterproof? Longer lasting? How much would it be worth it to you (as in $$$) to have XCR?
Debating on a new storm shell for this year and Sierra Trading Post has a cheapish Cloudveil with regular Gore Tex so I'm looking for first hand experience/comparisons.He who has the most fun wins!
09-04-2005, 01:41 AM #2
XCR does breathe better, other atributes (such as waterproofness/longlivety etc.) should be about the same. Still XCR does boast the same problems that all Gore-fabrics have, ie. they don't work that well when the outer fabric is wet/moist (vs. say eVent / Triplepoint which should work better when moist - no 1. hand experience of that though).
Still I'm not sure how much the actual difference in breathability on XCR vs. reg. is, and I'm pretty sure the other fabrics on the jacket might have a lot more impact (ie. my Arc'Teryx jacket breathes a lot better than my North Face jacket, and both have XCR). But if the jacket you're looking for has ventilation zippers I think it would be doable (don't get a hardshell without ventilation-options, contrary to marketing they "really" don't breathe that well at least on my local climate...).
Another option would be to get a good softshell and then a thin/light hardshel to be used on top when the weather turns really nasty (forget Marmot Precip, the cut is made for really overweight persons... Marmot Minima seemed to have a lot better cut and have seen it at quite a few bargain bins lately).
Just my 0,02€lOriginally Posted by RootSkier
09-04-2005, 10:23 AM #3
XCR is like 45,000mm waterproofness vs. 60,000mm in Gore-Tex, something like that. You sacrifice waterproofness for breathablility, but 45,000 is nothing to scoff at.ROBOTS ARE EATING MY FACE.
09-04-2005, 10:41 AM #4
The thing I noticed the most is actually the weight and suppleness of the fabric.
Get a 3 layer of both types and you can really feel the weight difference between them, as well as the fact that the XCR does move better than the stiffer heavier regular goretex.
Having said that, for most storm skiing you tend to stay in bounds because vis and conditions, where the above points do not have as much of an impact anyway....
So, if it is only for storm skiing, Id go for the cheaper option, but thats just meRiding bikes, but not shredding pow...
09-04-2005, 01:34 PM #5my avatar is 2 big 2 fit
- Join Date
- Nov 2003
- Wandering WYo!
I have used both. I have been satisfied with both XCR and regular Gortex. I use un-lined jackets and layer them with a polar/fleece pullover.
I found no difference in hiking and skiing. All the gortex products have held up to many years of hiking and skiing. The only thing I notice is the shoulders give out their waterproof qualities after a few years. I think this is due to abrasion from backpack shoulder straps.
I think you will find more comfort differences in the construction of the jacket...features such as detachable hood, length of jacket, pit zips, glove cords, powder skirt, etc. Also, different linings and the amount of pockets both inside and out have an impact on weight.
Wind resistance is excellent in both. On a windy day at high altitudes you will be happy to have either product.when not on the snow what else do i do...
09-04-2005, 06:36 PM #6
This might help .... seems that 3 layer XCR is 45,000mm v classic 28,000mm
The European Standard a fabric must meet to be classified as waterproof is a hydrostatic head rating of 1,500mm. Hydrostatic head is a fabric's resistance to water pressure equivalent to a column height of water. Whilst a hydrostatic head of 1,500mm will keep out heavy rain, it will not stand up to the increased pressure put on a fabric in general use and by rucksacks etc. On average, outerwear fabrics tend to have a hydrostatic head of 10,000mm and above. Classic Gore-Tex fabric rates 28,000mm and 3 layer Gore-Tex XCR fabric rates 45,000mm! For a garment to be classified as fully waterproof, all seams must be factory sealed or taped on the inside of the fabric (or water penetrates stitch holes). Note that pockets on waterproof jackets aren't necessarily waterproof, check specific details to be sure. In addition, fabrics may have a durable water repellent (DWR) outer coating. Water repellency is a fabric's ability to make water "bead" and roll-off. Effective DWR is desirable in a fabric as water soaking into the outer fibres will inhibit breathability. DWR coatings can and do wear or wash-off (they can be renewed or re-activated) whereas waterproof inner coatings or membranes will to a greater or lesser degree last the lifetime of the garment.
A completely waterproof fabric that does not allow passage of the moisture-laden vapour generated by the body during exercise will quickly saturate the wearer as moisture condenses inside. High levels of shell fabric breathability are key to all day comfort and the best outerwear fabrics have both high water resistance and high breathability. Breathability is measured in two ways. Firstly as a rating in grammes of how much vapour a square metre of fabric will allow to pass through in 24 hours (gm/m2/24). The second method (used by Gore-Tex fabrics amongst others) is RET (evaporative resistance of a textile). Lower RET = better breathability. The more active a user's aspirations, the higher the breathability required. For general recreational use, 10,000gm/m2/24 and above is desirable. More active use and backcountry situations required far higher breathability. New outerwear solutions such as Softshell (see below) have levels of breathability not achievable in conventional hard shells.
It should be noted that breathable fabrics do not stop you sweating and care should be taken as to clothing worn beneath waterproof breathable shells. High quality base layers and fleece or insulated midlayers should in themselves draw vapour from the body and pass it outwards, thus allowing the outer fabric to do its job. Cotton clothing should never be worn as part of a performance clothing system.
gore-tex xcr paclite
GORE-TEX® XCR 2-layer fabric: XCR stands for Xtended Comfort Range. Breathability is the key factor that sets GORE-TEX XCR outerwear apart, with an average of 25% more breathability than standard GORE-TEX fabric.
Waterproof: Guaranteed to keep you dry® hydrostatic head 28 metres (ISO 811) Breathability: extremely breathable <45 RET (ISO 11092) Wind resistance: 100% windproof.
GORE-TEX® XCR 3-layer fabric: Made out of the toughest textiles and is a perfect choice for those high intense active users looking for an outerwear durable and breathable enough.
Waterproof: Guaranteed to keep you dry® hydrostatic head 45 metres (ISO 811) b extremely breathable <60 RET (ISO11092) Wind resistance: 100% windproof.
GORE-TEX® Classic Fabric: The original GORE-TEX fabric that still sets the standard in general outdoor and piste oriented ski clothing. The GORE-TEX membrane is durably bonded together with the outer shell material and is protected by a free hanging inner lining material.
Waterproof: Guaranteed to keep you dry® hydrostatic head 28 Metres (ISO 811) Breathability: RET <90 (ISO 11092). Wind resistance: 100% windproof.
Last edited by doofdoof; 09-04-2005 at 06:41 PM.
09-05-2005, 12:02 AM #7
I have the 2-ply in my old MHW jacket, with an inner mesh and a Arteryx Sidewinder with XCR.
The breathability is quite lot better in the artcteryx, i guess mainly because it lacks the inner mesh (that usually gets wet of sweat) and the outer fabric is a bit thinner and has a better hydrophobic treatment.
In the wather proofness i havent found any differencies, both keep the reain out for days, if neccessary, the arctreyx is just so much easier to dry out (lack of the inner mesh) if you stay in tent/snowcave conditions for few days.
But yeah, if you really need the breathability and have the cash, then definetly xcr, with some good pitzips.
But if you are in the interior of usa/canada with dry winters (not with the frequent rain´s and sleet that we have around here) then i personally would go for a hooded softshell. No doubt about that.
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
09-05-2005, 07:17 AM #8
Is the Gore-tex Classic #-ply. It is hard to tell from that article but if it has a mesh interior it's 2ply right. So that maybe comparing two different products. I say they are very similar but XCR seems to have a softer hand (is not as stiff) otherwise they are very similar.Move along nothing to see here.
09-05-2005, 10:10 AM #9
Definitely have found XCR to be noticably more breathable than regular. That said, I go for soft shell fabrics like dryskin extreme unless it's REALLY wet, as I seem to still soak with sweat when using even XCR. Scholler dryskin extreme is quite a bit more breathable than XCR, but you do give up some waterproofness. I wear my scholler (a Mummut shell) on all but the very wet days.
09-05-2005, 11:34 AM #10
The jacket in question is a 3 ply "regular" gore tex. Its the Cloudveil RPK3. Anyone have one of these?
I long ago decided that the 2 ply gore tex isn't nearly as good as the 3 ply.
Already have a soft shell, this is for Sierra storm days when it truly gets wet and the soft shell doesn't cut it.He who has the most fun wins!
09-05-2005, 11:44 AM #11
i've got the cloudveil RPK 3 pants and am very happy with them. The difference between the 3 ply and the xcr is minimal. I also have an arcteryx shell that is xcr. Both seem to perform well. IF the rpk3 is on sale id say get it...rather than paying up for xcr. that is unless you ski in the wind and rain a lot......
09-05-2005, 11:54 AM #12
Cant wait to hear that forecast again.