Ask the experts

[Dantheman]

With the nitpicky caveat that once sagged, the geo will be a little different since the travel is different.

Good point.

[jono]

Or you could set the sag point to the same amount of travel and then you'll notice more change at the end of travel. But what's the objective?

[Andeh]

Yeah, exactly. Let's say hypothetically you had a bike that started at 60mm stroke for 150mm travel. 30% sag would be ~18mm or 45mm travel. If you were able to jump up to 65mm stroke, that'd get you about 8.3% more travel, or about 162mm travel. 30% sag for that would be 19.5mm, or 48.6mm travel. That 19.5mm stroke of sag would be like like 32.5% sag on the original 60mm stroke (so the bike would sink into the rear a bit more at sag). Or, if you ran the original 18mm sag on the new 65mm stroke, it would feel the same off the top, but that'd only be 27.7% sag, so you'd effectively add more travel without changing the sag point feel of the bike.

So, if you're trying to keep the bike feeling the same for most situations while adding a bit more travel at the end for oh-shit, then add the stroke but keep the amount of sag (in mm) the same. But if you want the bike to feel like a longer travel, slightly squishier all around bike, then adjust pressure/spring rate to achieve your desired sag % based on the new stroke.

Just to go completely into the weeds, there's one more case. I'm looking at getting a Cascade link on my next bike, and it adds about 10mm travel (for same stroke shock). In that case, same % sag will feel different. The stock bike is 55mm stroke, 150mm travel, and 25% suggested sag. So for the same % sag for both the stock and Cascade setups, the Cascade setup should feel squishier. (25% stroke of 160mm travel (assuming linear progressive leverage curve) is 40mm travel, vs. 25% of 150mm = 37mm travel stock.)

[Falcon3]

As best I can tell, XTR rear derailleurs are the only ones that will not immediately bend.

Shit. I can buy 5 Deore derailleurs for the price of one XTR. I might go that route.

[hick]

I’ve googled and I think I’m on track but…
2022 DT Swiss 370 (Roval branded) on 22 specialized stumpy Evo, is swapping to 36t engagement from the painfully slow current engagement as easy as just getting the 36t and swapping what’s in there? I haven’t cracked it open yet, but as far I can tell online the newest 370 should be ratchet drive or am I out to lunch on this?


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[Beaver]

Lezyne Micro Drive XL.
Great tweener pump to keep in the truck.

Attachment 428680

https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/...p-mfdr-xl-v104

Not a pump to leave in the truck. It's pretty small and light, I carry one on the trail. If you want a pump to keep in the truck just buy a cheap axiom floor pump for $30.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I’ve googled and I think I’m on track but…
2022 DT Swiss 370 (Roval branded) on 22 specialized stumpy Evo, is swapping to 36t engagement from the painfully slow current engagement as easy as just getting the 36t and swapping what’s in there? I haven’t cracked it open yet, but as far I can tell online the newest 370 should be ratchet drive or am I out to lunch on this?


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Newest 370 is ratchet drive, and the pawl 370’s can be converted to ratchet.

The ratchet in 370 is not the same as 350 or 240/180, so make sure you get the right one; needs to be ‘Ratchet LN’

Part numbers are at the bottom of this page, make sure you look for 36 in the description:

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...-ln-technology

Ratchet LN tech manual:

https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00...WEB_EN_001.pdf

[jm2e]

Anyone seen this happen before?
Mrs jm2e front flatted today. Zero air would go in, with the mini pump. Nothing to plug, but couldn’t figure out where the air was going using the mini. All DH to the car with Cush Core, so just slow rolled it out.
Back at home, blasted with compressed air and it’s all hemorrhaging out the valve.
Break the bead and when I get to the valve the rubber stopper is missing. A little fishing around with a pick and it seems the rubber but went completely through the valve hole and separated from the stem.
That’s one for the WTF list.


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[Tailwind]

yeah… I burned through three this summer… need to order my forth. I really feel like there is a niche here for a group like Wolf Tooth to make an aftermarket cage that isn’t terrible.

If I can ever find inner and outer plates in stock I’ll buy like 4x and be set for a while.

i wonder if you could run the XTR cage on a XT or SLX derailleur….

Did we decide what Shimano 12s derailleur was the least likely to have the cage made of mush?

SLX mech - 7 weeks old, already is bent hardcore. I can put a teeny bit of hand pressure on the cage, release it, and the mech will shift all fucked up from prior. I’m having a hell of a time getting it to shift anywhere near ok. The fucking cage acts like it’s made of butter, definitely a weaker metal than I’ve ever seen a cage made of before. And yeah I get it’s longer for 12s but the upper jockey pulley shouldn’t be this easy to pull out of alignment with literally one finger. Fuck.

[Falcon3]

yeah… I burned through three this summer… need to order my forth. I really feel like there is a niche here for a group like Wolf Tooth to make an aftermarket cage that isn’t terrible.

If I can ever find inner and outer plates in stock I’ll buy like 4x and be set for a while.

i wonder if you could run the XTR cage on a XT or SLX derailleur….

Yeah that would be a great aftermarket upgrade. The actual pivots of the derailleur are solid but man, the cage is made of cheese.

I raced an enduro today with my low climbing gear and my top two high gears. The middle 9 speeds of the cassette i couldn’t trust at all to not ghost and skip. And that’s after fucking with it for several hours of trial and error and yes I know how to tune a derailleur.

[toast2266]

Yeah that would be a great aftermarket upgrade. The actual pivots of the derailleur are solid but man, the cage is made of cheese.

I raced an enduro today with my low climbing gear and my top two high gears. The middle 9 speeds of the cassette i couldn’t trust at all to not ghost and skip. And that’s after fucking with it for several hours of trial and error and yes I know how to tune a derailleur.

Ultimately, the problem is that 12 speed drivetrains are just too damn narrow for mountain bikes. The margin of proper adjustment is tiny, so any little bend in the cage or sloppiness in the pivots results in a non functioning drivetrain. And any derailleur that's been ridden hard is gonna end up with a bit of slop or a tiny bend sooner or later.

But I do love the range of a 12 speed cassette.

[hick]

Newest 370 is ratchet drive, and the pawl 370’s can be converted to ratchet.

The ratchet in 370 is not the same as 350 or 240/180, so make sure you get the right one; needs to be ‘Ratchet LN’

Part numbers are at the bottom of this page, make sure you look for 36 in the description:

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...-ln-technology

Ratchet LN tech manual:

https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00...WEB_EN_001.pdf

Thanks man!!


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[bagtagley]

Not a pump to leave in the truck. It's pretty small and light, I carry one on the trail. If you want a pump to keep in the truck just buy a cheap axiom floor pump for $30.

I got a $15 Bell to leave in the bed of truck with the expectation that I’d be replacing after a year or two. Seven years later it’s beat to shit and still kicking. The gauge starts at 10 psi, but it’s been like that since new.

[XtrPickels]

Yeah, exactly. Let's say hypothetically you had a bike that started at 60mm stroke for 150mm travel. 30% sag would be ~18mm or 45mm travel. If you were able to jump up to 65mm stroke, that'd get you about 8.3% more travel, or about 162mm travel. 30% sag for that would be 19.5mm, or 48.6mm travel. That 19.5mm stroke of sag would be like like 32.5% sag on the original 60mm stroke (so the bike would sink into the rear a bit more at sag). Or, if you ran the original 18mm sag on the new 65mm stroke, it would feel the same off the top, but that'd only be 27.7% sag, so you'd effectively add more travel without changing the sag point feel of the bike.

So, if you're trying to keep the bike feeling the same for most situations while adding a bit more travel at the end for oh-shit, then add the stroke but keep the amount of sag (in mm) the same. But if you want the bike to feel like a longer travel, slightly squishier all around bike, then adjust pressure/spring rate to achieve your desired sag % based on the new stroke.

This is what I did with my Epic Evo. Over-shocked, then kept the sag the same in mm. Took out volume spacers and had a more linear feel.

[sethschmautz]

i wonder if you could run the XTR cage on a XT or SLX derailleur….

Yeah that would be a great aftermarket upgrade. The actual pivots of the derailleur are solid but man, the cage is made of cheese.

If anybody has any modeling skills and wants to try to model this I have a laser sheet cutter and would be happy to try to cut these out of steel (including stainless) or aluminum. I would need a .dxf...

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[Johnny Utah]

If anybody has any modeling skills and wants to try to model this I have a laser sheet cutter and would be happy to try to cut these out of steel (including stainless) or aluminum. I would need a .dxf...

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This would be exciting. I think I remember these have some intentional bend, not perfectly flat by design, which might be the crux when trying to reproduce


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[Falcon3]

If anybody has any modeling skills and wants to try to model this I have a laser sheet cutter and would be happy to try to cut these out of steel (including stainless) or aluminum. I would need a .dxf...

I have some modeling experience….but I don’t think you guys want to see that….

[Boissal]

Anyone seen this happen before?
Mrs jm2e front flatted today. Zero air would go in, with the mini pump. Nothing to plug, but couldn’t figure out where the air was going using the mini. All DH to the car with Cush Core, so just slow rolled it out.
Back at home, blasted with compressed air and it’s all hemorrhaging out the valve.
Break the bead and when I get to the valve the rubber stopper is missing. A little fishing around with a pick and it seems the rubber but went completely through the valve hole and separated from the stem.
That’s one for the WTF list.

I've had that happen with a DT valve I had moved across a couple sets of wheels. The rubber gasket thing had a groove in it from being pressed into the rim and when I reinstalled it I must have tightened it too much. It eventually tore, probably when the valve wiggled about when pumping the tire, and came out of the rim. Now I use Mucoff valves which come with several of these rubber things and I don't reuse them if I have to remove and reinstall the valve more than a couple times.

[jono]

If anybody has any modeling skills and wants to try to model this I have a laser sheet cutter and would be happy to try to cut these out of steel (including stainless) or aluminum. I would need a .dxf...

I can get you a dxf, but what strategy for measuring? Somebody with a caliper take apart a new one? Grab a really good/square pic on graph paper? Seems like the critical dimensions may be pretty limited.

[bigwaterbird]

Nope, that is a fucking open-ended Giant seatstay. Chainstays are the same.

I bought a new F'in derailleur because of that rock. Well, the derailleur was mangled and bent back recently and making other noises, so I figured it was the cause.

After yesterday's ride, the noise was so bad that I was convinced my bike was going to fall apart on every ledge I rode off of. In a fit of frustration I pulled the back wheel in the parking lot to check the hanger and hub bearings. I flipped the bike over to get the wheel back on, and heard a sound awfully like a rock inside of a tube. I realized what was going on and didn't actually see it fall out, but the noise is gone. Mrs. Snowaddict thinks its funny. I'm still pissed that I chased this noise for the last two weeks.

That’s about as bad as when you leave your bike at a buddies house and he tosses a bunch of bearings down your seat tube to mess with you…holy hell…

[bigwaterbird]

Anyone seen this happen before?
Mrs jm2e front flatted today. Zero air would go in, with the mini pump. Nothing to plug, but couldn’t figure out where the air was going using the mini. All DH to the car with Cush Core, so just slow rolled it out.
Back at home, blasted with compressed air and it’s all hemorrhaging out the valve.
Break the bead and when I get to the valve the rubber stopper is missing. A little fishing around with a pick and it seems the rubber but went completely through the valve hole and separated from the stem.
That’s one for the WTF list.


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When you replace those get a set of these…so slick. Valve core tool, and two spoke wrenches in each cap. https://juicelubes.us/tubeless-valves.html

[sethschmautz]

This would be exciting. I think I remember these have some intentional bend, not perfectly flat by design, which might be the crux when trying to reproduce


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Yes. I think they are probably stamped. To get the same strength without stamping you'd probably need to go with a thicker material. I don't have a spare 12spd derailleur - just the "modified" (by rocks) XT on my trail bike.

I have some modeling experience….but I don’t think you guys want to see that….

Ah ha ha...

I can get you a dxf, but what strategy for measuring? Somebody with a caliper take apart a new one? Grab a really good/square pic on graph paper? Seems like the critical dimensions may be pretty limited.

So...i just remembered that we got a fancy new laser scanner for scanning and measuring complex parts. We are just starting to figure out how to use it and I'm sure the team would be happy to scan a cage for me. I'll try that route first and probably a 3d printed version to see if holes align...

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[XtrPickels]

I just installed a new 2022 Fox 36 Grip 2. It feels over-damped compared to my '21 with the same pressures and settings.
A bit harsh on compression and a bit over damped on rebound.

1. Does the new fork need a few rides to break in?
2. Should I not expect the clicks to be the same?

[Eluder]

I just installed a new 2022 Fox 36 Grip 2. It feels over-damped compared to my '21 with the same pressures and settings.
A bit harsh on compression and a bit over damped on rebound.

1. Does the new fork need a few rides to break in?
2. Should I not expect the clicks to be the same?

1. Yes, your fork could also likely use some slick honey on the seals.
2. 21, 22 dampers should be the same.

[Andeh]

Fox forks are notorious for shipping with about 1/4 cup of slick honey slathered on the end of the air spring, which messes with the air chamber volumes. Do a basic oil change and check the top cap of the air shaft, also lube the wiper seals as suggested above.