The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[galibier_numero_un]

brakeless raider, probably, is the burliest/weight trade. Alternatively, Haute route with freeride spacer added.

Not an argument for or against leashes, but just for fun, weigh your lightest leashes as well as your brakes. I think you'll be surprised ;-)

... Thom

[Bamski]

Tried out my first set of Vario2’s on my new setup. Holy shit I wish I’d made the switch sooner.

Still love my plums for their full aluminum build and direct(?) ski feel with my skinny steeps ski.

The Varios are just a pleasure to ski on the down. They most certainly do feel more muted in variable snow. Zero issues with the risers on my handful of tours so far. Maybe adds 2-3 seconds to a swap once or twice a tour. If I’m going up a mountain from the valley there’s a good chance I’m camping out in the lower risers for 80% or the day anyways.

Wasn’t sure how I’d like the step in process, but it turns out to be super simple and very quick to pick up. Putting your skis on with one hand while bent over is so nice compared to an awkward step in over any exposure.

Big fan.

[ktoor]

Tried out my first set of Vario2’s on my new setup. Holy shit I wish I’d made the switch sooner.

Still love my plums for their full aluminum build and direct(?) ski feel with my skinny steeps ski.

The Varios are just a pleasure to ski on the down. They most certainly do feel more muted in variable snow. Zero issues with the risers on my handful of tours so far. Maybe adds 2-3 seconds to a swap once or twice a tour. If I’m going up a mountain from the valley there’s a good chance I’m camping out in the lower risers for 80% or the day anyways.

Wasn’t sure how I’d like the step in process, but it turns out to be super simple and very quick to pick up. Putting your skis on with one hand while bent over is so nice compared to an awkward step in over any exposure.

Big fan.

very funny i also have almost exclusively plums and got my first pair of vario2s. skied for the first time last week (on magico2s) and was very impressed by the same things you mention. really like them so far, excited for some longer days. thought i wouldnt love the plastic base but dont notice it (may be nicer to have the wider platform even). also felt the same way about the toe piece, i think its awesome.

the heel pins are long enough that the minimum gap i have seems to be bigger than recommended because of the boot rubber. other than that stoke is high.


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[Cocximus]

I’m on alpinists on all of my touring skis, just a hair under 300 grams. For me it’s the perfect balance of skiing an uphill performance. A version with a freeride spacer is in the works for next season which i’ll add to both of my wider skis when it’s available, but for now i’m really happy with them as is


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Like the universal freeride spacer from atk that can be mounted with any binding. ATK discontinued them

[Cocximus]

How do the new atk spacers get away without the sliding plate? How come the sole lugs don't get caught on them?

[frorider]

I have the ATK fr spacers on my c raider 12s, they slide laterally and work fine. I believe all ATK spacers slide laterally

[Cocximus]

You are right my bad

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

I believe I read @Frorider and other people used a free ride spacer (ATK or homemade) with Alpinists. How does that work in walk mode? Does your heel now rest on that in “flat” skinning mode?

[riff]

I had my first pro bootfitting session today, and he said I need to get rid of the homemade 4mm plate under my Oazo heel pieces. This means my ATK universal freeride spacers don’t fit any more, even with some height removed. Has anyone made some 3d printed ones, and could I buy some once I have a thickness measurement for you? I could trade universal spacers if you want. I will miss the afd function but really just don’t want to go without a spacer.


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[Norseman]

Leave the heel alone and put a lifter under the toe piece instead...?

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

…. I will miss the afd function but really just don’t want to go without a spacer.
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If I understand correctly, you are saying you don’t want to lose the sliding AFD, (by using a fixed AFD)?

That might not actually be worse.

Several years ago Jeff Campbell tested AT boots in alpine bindings.
Basically, he found that in a lateral release with downward pressure, the rubber soles of the AT boots got hung up on the AFD, and this effect was worse with sliding AFDs than fixed ones. The sliding ones would slide to the end of their travel and bend.
The sliding ones have come on to the market because the testing required only tests unloaded lateral release. Sliding AFDs work really well in that scenario.

To be clear, this was a small sample, and in alpine bindings, and in lateral release at the toe, etc, etc, but I do believe it is enough to suggest fixed AFDs might be no worse than sliding ones.

If I end up making my own, I will make them wider than the boot heel, but then rounded off on the part outside the boot, so that there is no edge to catch and dig into the boot sole.

[riff]

Turns out on closer inspection, there’s enough material to grind down the atk spacers to the 13mm I need- problem solved!


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[bfree]

Turns out on closer inspection, there’s enough material to grind down the atk spacers to the 13mm I need- problem solved!


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I may be picking up some Oazos for some future BC110s. If you had to do it over again, would you cut down the ATK freeride spacer or just make a solid plastic one (I'd probably machine some delrin or PTFE rather than 3DP)?

[riff]

I suppose for the money difference I’d do a solid one that mounts to the baseplate of Oazo’s; would save an extra hole in the ski also. However, I can’t quantify if the moving afd has or could save me from injury.


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[V.R.P]

The new Oazo heel plate has a stomp pad that can be added instead of the brake. Mount pattern is the same I believe.

[shitskier]

That is nice! I do not plan to run Alpinists any time soon, but still appreciate the effort. Ideally a solution involving not having to svivel the heel to unlock two modes would have been ideal, but it probably adds a lot of complexity to make it work.

I know I am hardly the first one to run this setup, but this is what I have planned for my two main pairs of touring skis this coming winter: Vario.2 toes and ATK R/FR w/Freeride spacer heels. I am admittedly pretty excited to try the combo. The stock vario.2 heels skied fine and the lack of risers weren't much of an issue, but more is better, as are brakes

Any updates on this setup? I'm thinking about trying it.

[auvgeek]

Any updates on this setup? I'm thinking about trying it.

I skied this quite a bit. It skis very well. I have dropped some sizeable cliffs on it, including some decent pillow lines in BC, and skied quite fast without pre-releasing (toes unlocked). I had one pre-release but Norseman helped me diagnose that it was probably snow in my boot heel that didn't get cleared. I now give my boots a few thwacks with my pole before stepping in and I haven't had an issue since. I think this is because I was used to the SSL heel, which requires quite a bit of step-in force to spread the pins and I think any snow in the heel would be cleared by the step-in process, which isn't the case with ATK's easy step in feature.

Personally, I have skied a lot on the Trab toe and Speed Superlight 2.0 heel, and I think that combo makes even more sense, if you don't need bsl adjustment. That weighs like 170g and skis super well. Especially because the SSL 2.0 heel has a bit more lateral elasticity ("return to center" angle) than the FR heel. You can feel this when you rotate both heels a bit by hand and then let them go. The SSL 2.0 can rotate quite a bit and still snap back to center while the FR heel doesn't have quite the same range.

Sometimes I convince myself that FR heel skis better than the SSL 2.0 heel due to the freeride spacer, but I really go back and forth on whether the FR is worth the weight. I haven't yet installed a DIY freeride spacer for the SSL heel but people do and I think it makes a lot of sense. But the FR is considerably easier to step into in pow and the risers are dead easy -- especially if there's no flat skinning so you don't have to rotate the heel and just put the flaps down over the pins.

[Cocximus]

Why don't you use the trab heel?

My only gripe with it is that it needs to be rotated from flat to riser mode.

[obnomad]

I believe people don't think the Vario 2 heel offers enough to offset how heavy it is. Brake options suck too(heavy, no flat mode, widest is 94mm).

[Karl_H]

brakeless raider, probably, is the burliest/weight trade. Alternatively, Haute route with freeride spacer added.

I could be wrong here, but it seems like the ATK Kuluar is seems like what ATK is marketing as their "burly" lightweight binding. The ATK CEO describes the Kuluar toe piece as "bomb proof".

Go to the 10:30 mark (https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/a...erences-ep-200)

[stuntmanbo]

Raider with freeride spacer would be burlier than Kuluar with freeride spacer, but probably about 80g more or something like that.

[CaliBrit]

Raider with freeride spacer would be burlier than Kuluar with freeride spacer, but probably about 80g more or something like that.

I run the heel from the RT10 Evo with the freeride spacer. Slightly lighter than the Raider with same feature set.

[kid-kapow]

Any updates on this setup? I'm thinking about trying it.

it skis really well.

That is, after I adjusted the din in the rear from 7 to 10. 10 feels more akin to SkiTrab heels torque wise, but I guess I should measure.

I have not gotten around to skiing them back to back with FR14s to see if the combo is worth it or not, but will do just as soon as I can get my hand on some new beefy touring boots. My current Scarpa Quattro XTs and I do not match perfectly sadly - will be replaced by backland xtds.

Why don't you use the trab heel?

My only gripe with it is that it needs to be rotated from flat to riser mode.

so that I do not need to twist it to access different risers, to use them with freeride spacers and to have brakes that can be used with wider skis. The Vario.2 heel skis well though, so they tour great if you "only" go up in either flat or one riser up modes.

[Cocximus]

I wish they could at least be turned with a pole.

[auvgeek]

Why don't you use the trab heel?

My only gripe with it is that it needs to be rotated from flat to riser mode.

You're talking about the Vario.2 heel, right? The toe piece is shared between the Gara and the Vario.2, just a shim is different.

I don't see the benefit for the weight, height, and features. If it had a freeride spacer and adjustable RV, that would make it more attractive. As it stand, the Vario.2 heels is kind of in no-mans land for me personally, although being gapless with high lateral elasticity is certainly a benefit.