Why your SUV sucks in the mountains

[shroom]

yes, i got that part. I was wondering about some specifics.

i’ve been outta the car game a few years, but would recommend legacygt.com/forums

just after college i convinced a friend (22 y/o navy heli pilot) to fly from pensacola to NY to buy this beast. he told me at one point the next garage it will live in will be mine. we’ll see about that.

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthre...bb-194295.html

[summit]

Nomad you could try a 6 cyl (3.6L) Outback if you need more room than the smaller wagons... way more zip than a T4R even the V8 and smoother on the highway.

If you want a T4R that handles the highway way better than your 3rd gen, the 5th gen ('10-curent) SR5 do pretty well, but the Lims are better with XREAS crosslinked suspension to decrease body roll (4th gen (03-09) Sport also had this). 5th gen Limiteds also have full time "AWD" with a lockable center (all 4th gens had this, makes them amazing in snow and maneuverable in parking lots). But Limiteds are $$$. You could get a 4th or 5th gen SR5 and upgrade the suspension for less.

We replaced a 4th gen T4R Sport with a used 3.6L Outback because a Limited T4R was going to cost 40% more than the top trim subie and 1 T4R is enough for us.

[jmedslc]

Regardless, if you want a legit winter tire that handles everyday driving well, the xi3 appears to me a great choice.

I run the xi3 on my turbo forester and feel the same way. While i believe it gives up a bit of deep snow performance to blizzak and the nokian Hakka, it drives well in all conditions and has lasted many many miles while retaining good grip in icy snowy conditions.

Next tire will be either a nokian or another set of Michelin xi3.

[summit]

Those Michy Xi3s come with way less tread than a Blizzak DMV2. Just looked and the same size comes with 10.5/32" tread depth while the Blizzak comes with 13/32". Since I'm only driving to about 5.5/32 before replacement on a snow, that means I've got 5/32 of consumable tread on the Xi3 vs 7.5/32" on the DMV2,

Blizzak DMV2 has 50% more usable tread than a Micheline Xi3!

[whyturn]

I feel like this thread is like “is the BG right for me” thread. I could be wrong but it is TGR. Just sayin

[TAFKALVS]

It amazes me how much time we can spend talking about the same tires around here. This is what, the 3rd or 4th all-season vs. winter tire thread?

[Name Redacted]

My wife commutes I70 over Vail pass a shitload. Drives an 3.6L Outback with Nokians, and she drives fast and well. The other day she creamed a post in the parking garage at work. Moral of the story, great tires and power, and AWD can only get you so far in this world. You are still gonna wreck. Guy at the body shop said he loves Subarus, because they are easy to work on and they get a ton of em.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Tons of empirical data compiled by disinterested parties suggests otherwise.


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[El Chupacabra]

The 4 runner and LX350 (same vehicle, LX350 is a better buy on the used market) come with decent V8s, they won’t handle like a WRX but can wheel and can get out of their own way. I’m assuming you have an older 4 runner?

The 4Runner and GX are very similar. There is no such vehicle as a LX350 from Toyota or Lexus. The Lexus LX is the fancy Land Cruiser, and there was a LX450 (straight six, not in any 4Runner), a LX470 (V8, available in 4th gen 4Runner), and a LX570 (V8, newer).

The Highlander is the fancy version of the RX, which did come as a RX350. Toyota did not put that 3.5 V6 in any 4Runner or GX, but it was available in the Highlander, RX, and even the RAV4.

[californiagrown]

5th gen Limiteds also have full time "AWD" with a lockable center (all 4th gens had this, makes them amazing in snow and maneuverable in parking lots).

correct me if im wrong, but locking the center diff makes all 4 wheels spin at the same rate, meaning that turning tight radius' is no bueno. I get a shitton of grinding if i try and turn with my center diff locked on my 2004 4runner, but i also have never NEEDED it- only ever used it just to make sure it still kicks in.

[summit]

correct me if im wrong, but locking the center diff makes all 4 wheels spin at the same rate, meaning that turning tight radius' is no bueno. I get a shitton of grinding if i try and turn with my center diff locked on my 2004 4runner, but i also have never NEEDED it- only ever used it just to make sure it still kicks in.

A locked "center" (what is seen in 4WD)means that the front and rear drive axles must spin at the same rate, but since those connect to open diffs on their respective axles not all 4 wheels need spin at the same rate as you have seen if you've ever gotten a 4wd stuck. You can have 1 wheel spinning on each axle while one wheel on each axle doesn't move. However the two wheels that are spinning (at the highest rate) on each axle must move at the same speed which is the problem when cornering.

So the part time 4wd in 4th Gen 4runner (yours) and full time awd in Limited 4th and 5th Gen 4runners does have the ability to lock and unlock the center while in "4wd". When not locked, it functions basically like AWD allowing different rotation rates (slip) between the front and rear drive axles allowing you to turn without grinding (which is tires breaking traction as forced by the locked differential) and poor turning radius. Being able to not have the center locked gives AWD an edge in traction on road in the snow over pure (locked diff) 4WD as in trucks (or all 5th Gen T4R except the Limited).

Then you can lock for extra traction if crawling off road or stuck in the snow.

It's the best of both worlds.

[GPP33]

The 4Runner and GX are very similar. There is no such vehicle as a LX350 from Toyota or Lexus. The Lexus LX is the fancy Land Cruiser, and there was a LX450 (straight six, not in any 4Runner), a LX470 (V8, available in 4th gen 4Runner), and a LX570 (V8, newer).

The Highlander is the fancy version of the RX, which did come as a RX350. Toyota did not put that 3.5 V6 in any 4Runner or GX, but it was available in the Highlander, RX, and even the RAV4.

You are correct, GX470, not LX350 (really screwed that one up). The 4 runners hold their value way better than the GX so you can get more for your money. Things like leather, V8, the fancy hydraulic antisway system.

correct me if im wrong, but locking the center diff makes all 4 wheels spin at the same rate, meaning that turning tight radius' is no bueno. I get a shitton of grinding if i try and turn with my center diff locked on my 2004 4runner, but i also have never NEEDED it- only ever used it just to make sure it still kicks in.

It makes the front and rear drive shafts spin the same speed, not all 4 tires. Axle differentials allow the tires to turn different speeds unless you also have axle differential lockers, in which case they are all forced to turn the same speed. Locking the center diff will make it difficult to turn in high traction situations but it shouldn't grind, tires may skid a little and you'll feel some bucking but not grinding. The only time I notice it when driving on snow in my long ass 4 door long bed (it's more exaggerated on long wheel base vehicles) is in parking lots and occasionally on a tight right hand turn.

[Mallthus]

The 4Runner and GX are very similar. There is no such vehicle as a LX350 from Toyota or Lexus.

Pretty sure he was confusing the LX and GX, which was especially easy back when both the LX and GX were V8 powered and Land Cruiser based.

Test drove one of those when new and found it a cramped ergonomic nightmare on par with my LR Discovery, albeit potentially more reliable by far. Bought a V8 Pathfinder instead, which was “fine”.


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[Bobcat Sig]

Yup.

Keep a 4x4 manual SUV winter beater with upsized studded Hakkapeliittas and a ski box for those exact reasons.

I don't understand people who buy $80,000 4x4 road princesses.

So they can take the kids to soccer practice and sit in traffic. Duh

[whyturn]

^^^. Drove my 05 manual turbo forester in snow and it’s great and paid off. I do love the MDX for comfort and reliability. I don’t understand the Audi and beemer soccer deal but it seems to be a status thing. The MDX handles really well in the snow with hakkas and their sh-awd. To each their own but my SUVs do not suck in the MTNS.

[Bobcat Sig]

Pretty sure he was confusing the LX and GX, which was especially easy back when both the LX and GX were V8 powered and Land Cruiser based.

Test drove one of those when new and found it a cramped ergonomic nightmare on par with my LR Discovery, albeit potentially more reliable by far. Bought a V8 Pathfinder instead, which was “fine”.


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Totally splitting hairs here; the GX and V8 4Runners are not Land Cruiser-based. They shared a similar drivetrain, including the 4.7 V8, but that was about it.

[Mallthus]

Totally splitting hairs here; the GX and V8 4Runners are not Land Cruiser-based. They shared a similar drivetrain, including the 4.7 V8, but that was about it.

The GX and 4Runner shared their platform and drivetrain with the Land Cruiser Prado. Toyota calls the Prado a Land Cruiser. I don’t feel like I’m in a position to argue with the people who make the thing.


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[Mallthus]

^^^. Drove my 05 manual turbo forester in snow and it’s great and paid off. I do love the MDX for comfort and reliability. I don’t understand the Audi and beemer soccer deal but it seems to be a status thing. The MDX handles really well in the snow with hakkas and their sh-awd. To each their own but my SUVs do not suck in the MTNS.

Because for every SUV on proper winter tires you see in the snow, there’s 25 (or more) that have never left Orange County, California (or Houston, Miami, Phoenix, etc).


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[GPP33]

The GX and 4Runner shared their platform and drivetrain with the Land Cruiser Prado. Toyota calls the Prado a Land Cruiser. I don’t feel like I’m in a position to argue with the people who make the thing.


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Toyota calls two completely different platforms "Land Cruisers" depending on what country you are in. Since we're talking about vehicles in the US GX=4runner, LX=Land Cruiser, we don't get Prados. Not sure if that holds for current land cruisers since the land cruiser = sequoia, does that also = LX570?

[Mallthus]

Toyota calls two completely different platforms "Land Cruisers" depending on what country you are in. Since we're talking about vehicles in the US GX=4runner, LX=Land Cruiser, we don't get Prados. Not sure if that holds for current land cruisers since the land cruiser = sequoia, does that also = LX570?

And, of course, the Sequoia is really wholly unrelated to the Land Cruiser lineup, being the based on the Tundra platform, although it shares an engine family (3UR) with the Land Cruiser and LX.


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[blackalps]

Nomad you could try a 6 cyl (3.6L) Outback if you need more room than the smaller wagons... way more zip than a T4R even the V8 and smoother on the highway.

If you want a T4R that handles the highway way better than your 3rd gen, the 5th gen ('10-curent) SR5 do pretty well, but the Lims are better with XREAS crosslinked suspension to decrease body roll (4th gen (03-09) Sport also had this). 5th gen Limiteds also have full time "AWD" with a lockable center (all 4th gens had this, makes them amazing in snow and maneuverable in parking lots). But Limiteds are $$$. You could get a 4th or 5th gen SR5 and upgrade the suspension for less.

We replaced a 4th gen T4R Sport with a used 3.6L Outback because a Limited T4R was going to cost 40% more than the top trim subie and 1 T4R is enough for us.

The 5th gens are much better, that’s true, I’ve driven one for a while. But they are WAY more expensive, get worse MPG, and are still dogs on the highway. Most likely I’ll get a WRX or XT as a daily and keep the T4R for the really gnarly snow days and summer off-roading. I only paid $3k for it, and with the manual and locker the fucker is unstoppable in adverse conditions. Plus it’s really cozy to sleep in with the back seats out. Plus I still often need a truck.

[californiagrown]

^^^. Drove my 05 manual turbo forester in snow and it’s great and paid off. I do love the MDX for comfort and reliability. I don’t understand the Audi and beemer soccer deal but it seems to be a status thing. The MDX handles really well in the snow with hakkas and their sh-awd. To each their own but my SUVs do not suck in the MTNS.

The point was more a comment on the perceived unnecessary expense of a luxury SUV, than their capability in the mtns. Most newer SUVs kill it in the snow with decent tires. I use my older 4runner like i use a pair of rock skis- i drive in questionable conditions, on questionable roads, and do so because i have no qualms about adding another ding or scratch to it. I would think twice about driving up that overgrown logging road, or into the teeth of a pass-closing winter storm, or allowing 3 muddy people and a muddy dog to pile in for another shuttle lap on a wet fall day if a large part of my cars value was in the cosmetics. I would end up passing on some of those fun adventures, or it would be added stress and time involved. Also, im lucky and find the 4runner extremely comfortable, and ive never had a newer car so maybe i dont fully realize what im missing haha.

But, if a person has enough money to not care about dinging up, and being rough on a $50k+ car/truck, then more power to em. I certainly don't, and if i did, i would probably just keep the beater 4wd and use the excess on an even better city driver. But, like you said, to each their own.

[californiagrown]

Plus it’s really cozy to sleep in with the back seats out.

Huge bonus. Im 6'4" and with the front seats all the way up i can stretch out full length (not diagonal) in the back. I used to sleep very comfortably in the back most weekends when i was living in SF and skied at kirkwood.

[uglymoney]

The 5th gens are much better, that’s true, I’ve driven one for a while. But they are WAY more expensive, get worse MPG, and are still dogs on the highway. Most likely I’ll get a WRX or XT as a daily and keep the T4R for the really gnarly snow days and summer off-roading. I only paid $3k for it, and with the manual and locker the fucker is unstoppable in adverse conditions. Plus it’s really cozy to sleep in with the back seats out. Plus I still often need a truck.

That is what we did/have done with our 2003 Gen 4. New gen 5's are SO much money. Bought my Alltrack for 1/2 price a Gen 5 spec the way I would want. Our 4R already has OME lift and Bilsteins and the awd center diff and runs perfect for towing boats and family ski trips out west or off roading to hiking trails in the San Juans. Maybe someday I put an air locker in the rear end but it would only make things easier...not really needed for the tame stuff we conquer. Preserve and enjoy without too much worry and burn up our 3 little shit box wagons instead while saving a little fuel along the way.

[SB]