WTF is wrong with my home-brew ? FG = 1020.

[Scottish_Skier]

TGR,

Hope you can help me out and don't mind a random (non-ski) question.

Been brewing for a few years and recently moved to all grain. The first couple of all grains brews I did were great. For those ones used BIAB (brew in a bag) in a simple fermentation bucket insulated with silver foil.

Recently however my last two pale ales have both got stuck at gravity of 1020 :-(
This results in weak beer that doesn't taste great. Makes me think about going back to extract brews which always worked and took less time.

I think this f--k up is *perhaps* because I mashed the grain at a slightly too high temperature and don't have enough fermentable sugars? The beers tastes very sweet and is a little cloudy / heavier than expected. For the two recent brews that haven't worked I have been using BIAB but in a single vessel (one big metal pot). To control the temperature I installed a STC-1000 thermometer to the heating element. Though to be honest the temperature wasn't well controlled : probably 65-68C (ish) for most of the mash depending where I put the temperature sensor in the pot.

Does my guess that there were too many unfermentable sugars (as result of mash temperature being poorly controlled) sound plausible ? Or is there something else I should be worrying about.

Any comments / heckles much appreciated.
Been trawling various web forums but ended up getting even more confused.

[Flyoverland Captive]

I’ve had that happen on barleywines; usually a stuck fermentation can be restarted by pitching more yeast and being patient. A few general rules:

Ferment in glass carboys, not buckets. Buckets are actually porous. In glass, you can ferment much longer safely.
Use vodka, not water, in your airlock. An extra layer of defense.
When you pitch the yeast, pitch a small amount into a starter and keep it in the fridge. If you need to repitch later, you’ll have the exact same strain ready to go.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Oh, and aerate the hell out of the wort.

[Scottish_Skier]

Thanks for the thoughts.
I tried re-pitching new yeast (simply sprinkled in new packet) but with no joy :-(
Apparently a brew stuck at 1020 (OG = 1050) has enough alcohol to kill an ale yeast ?

Though I did read that champagne yeast might do the trick - ordered a packet this afternoon that should arrive midweek.

[Flyoverland Captive]

2 different yeasts is gonna add some weird flavors, which could actually be a good thing. Be sure to document exactly what you did, so you can do it again. :-)

[Flyoverland Captive]

Wait, I just notice you sprinkled in yeast; are you using dried yeast, or Wyeast liquids?

[Scottish_Skier]

2 different yeasts is gonna add some weird flavors, which could actually be a good thing. Be sure to document exactly what you did, so you can do it again. :-)

True.

However I really don't want to end up with *another* batch of weak / sweet beer that is stuck at 1020

[Lahar]

I always go to the local brewery with a sterile mason jar, and ask the brewer for a pull of yeast off the fermenter. Super active and ready to eat anything.

[Flyoverland Captive]

That’s a great idea. ^^^

[Peruvian]

149-154F should be fine for most ales. If it was in the 156 deg. range you may end up with more unfermentable sugars.

Can you provide a little more info - Malt bill? Type of yeast and how it was prepared? Fermentation temp? Using a hydrometer or refractometer and has it been calibrated?

That might help narrow down the issue.

[Scottish_Skier]

Peruvian...

Here is the recipe
Should have been a classic American style 'hoppy' pale.

Grain Bill
3.2kg pale ale
227g crystal 60L
227g amber
227g munich

Hops
centennial (10g 60mins, 10g 15 mins)
simcoe (10g, 10mins)
then dry hop 30g of simcoe.

Yeast
Salafe 05 US
Just sprinkled it in once wort chilled to <27C.
Initial fermentation was brisk. Lots of bubbles in airlock for a week.

OG = 1050 (19L batch)
FG = 1020 :-(

Used a simple glass hydrometer to measure the gravity.
Not been calibrated but no reason to believe it is wrong.

A previous batch ended up like this. Tried re-pitching the yeast (sprinkled in new packet) but it didn't do anything. In the ended just bottled it but it ended up tasting like sweet piss.

My main *guess* (from googling) is that the mash temperature wasn't well controlled ? Therefore I ended up with too many un-fermentable sugars in the wort. Though pretty sure I kept mash generally below <155F (~68C)

Frustrating as hell - second time this has happened when trying all-grain.
No idea WTF to do....
All suggestions and comment welcome!

[Lahar]

Stop using packets of yeast, and if you are, you need to get them going first in a sugar water solution for a few days before pitching.

[skizix]

Well it seems to me if you have excess fermentable sugars, re-pitching should do it.

But throwing a dry packet into room temperature wort might not spin up the yeast. Maybe heat up a small amount of water to 150-ish to. Dump the dry yeast (maybe throw in a tiny amount of sugar though that shouldn’t be necessary) - like standard baking technique. Let it sit for a few until it’s obviously active, and pitch into your half-brewed wort.

Worth a try I think.

[Scottish_Skier]

^ @Lahar / Skizix

Thanks for thoughts. Will try mixing up packet of Salafe US-05 yeast with 500ml water and table spoon of sugar. Then leave for a day before pitching. If that fails then I will go nuclear and try the champagne yeast...

Do you recommend liquid yeast over packet ?

[Flyoverland Captive]

Always liquid over packet. Liquid is already greedily eating sugars; packet is asleep, and takes time to wake up. Wyeast all the way.

https://wyeastlab.com/

[Scottish_Skier]

^ thanks again - TGR tech talk at its finest

[Skidog]

Always liquid yeast wyeast is a proven brand. Make a starter wort for the yeast 3 to 4 days before brewing. I suspect you're right with the assumption your temps were off during mash. It's a learning process.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

[Peruvian]

Bullshit on liquid over dry. Dry has 2x as many cells and works just fine 99% of the time.

27c/80f is too high to pitch US05. It should be 65-70f for best results and then fermenting at below 70f. I’m apt to think too many cells died initially, but repitching should have taken care of that.

Dry yeast should be dehydrated for best results. Just pour into a sanitized cup of 70deg water (no sugar needed) while brewing and it will activate during the 3-4 hours of brew time.

[couchsending]

Peruvian...

Here is the recipe
Should have been a classic American style 'hoppy' pale.

Grain Bill
3.2kg pale ale
227g crystal 60L
227g amber
227g munich

Hops
centennial (10g 60mins, 10g 15 mins)
simcoe (10g, 10mins)
then dry hop 30g of simcoe.

Yeast
Salafe 05 US
Just sprinkled it in once wort chilled to <27C.
Initial fermentation was brisk. Lots of bubbles in airlock for a week.

OG = 1050 (19L batch)
FG = 1020 :-(

Used a simple glass hydrometer to measure the gravity.
Not been calibrated but no reason to believe it is wrong.

A previous batch ended up like this. Tried re-pitching the yeast (sprinkled in new packet) but it didn't do anything. In the ended just bottled it but it ended up tasting like sweet piss.

My main *guess* (from googling) is that the mash temperature wasn't well controlled ? Therefore I ended up with too many un-fermentable sugars in the wort. Though pretty sure I kept mash generally below <155F (~68C)

Frustrating as hell - second time this has happened when trying all-grain.
No idea WTF to do....
All suggestions and comment welcome!

Without knowing exactly what the mash temp was it's hard to know exactly what happened. If you're gonna go all grain
(you will make better beer) Mash temp is pretty critical. Even if you were at 158 US05 should have finished lower than that.

That is a super old school Pale Ale recipe, personally I'd ditch the Munich and the Amber and go max 2% C60 with your base
malt, and triple the dry hopping amounts.

If the mash temp was high, Champagne yeast won't do much. It can't ferment complex sugars which is what you created with
a higher mash temp. Champagne yeast is great for super high alcohol fermentations that stall with some residual sugar left
cause the primary yeast can't handle the high alcohol in the beer but that's about it. The K1v-1116 wine yeast strain is a better
option for starting stuck fermentations as it will ferment complex sugars, doesn't produce phenols, and can handle super high
alcohol levels.

If you're set on trying to lower the gravity you will have the most success adding yeast that is active. So either make a starter
with some DME and pitch when the yeast is really active or make another batch of similar beer and add a Liter or so of that beer
when it's at high krausen. It doesn't even need to be the same yeast as you won't get much flavor contribution with such little
remaining extract in the beer.

Dry yeast isn't that bad, especially if you're a home brewer that doesn't have an oxygenation setup where you can get oxygen levels
in the wort where they need to be. Shaking the carboy won't get you there. You don't need to add oxygen to wort with dry yeast
cause of how it's produced. I would recommend rehydrating it first however. Just make sure you use tap water not RO or Distilled
to rehydrate. This will ensure more yeast survives for the fermentation.

Yeast nutrient is also a good idea. All you need is a little and it helps to ensure a healthy fermentation.

Did you check the expiration or production date on the package?

It's easy to calibrate your hydrometer. I had one that was .04 off once.

I think people would be surprised at the number of decent breweries in the world that use dry yeast. Hell the brewery that produces
the most sought after IPAs in the world at the moment uses dry yeast... seems to work well for them.

[Tye 1on]

With such complex hobbies it’s pretty impressive that you fuckers made it through dental school.

[Scottish_Skier]

OK, so added another US-05 salafe starter.
Then next day chucked in some champagne yeast for good measure.

Got the final gravity down to 1014 after another week.
Not ideal, but a nice recovery.
Crucially beer is clear and doesn't taste sweet.
Added a load of dry hops to cover any funky tastes.

Think this batch might actually turn out drinkable and surprisingly decent.
A few lessons learned. Thank you TGR