Recommended Ropes for BC skiing?

[Telemarketeer]

I am looking for a light weight rope option for backcountry skiing. Currently, I have been hauling my trusty old 11mm dynamic climbing rope up and that works, but it sure is a heavy beast and slow through the device. I do have a fair amount of rock/ice/canyon climbing experience, and some rope rescue experience so not a total newb, but need some advice with this application.

So what would be the lightest, easiest option. Haven't researched ropes in a few years. Could I get away with two half ropes or twins that we could split between partners? Once again, these are purely for rappelling into lines, or tying to someone while they cut a slope or stomp a cornice. Still want 60m total length so two 30m.

Any models or brands that you could reccomend?

[kalisto]

Buy a 70m dry twin and cut it in half? Probably what I would do...

[mall walker]

get 2 of the Eidelweiss 8mm x 30m ropes, they're cheap (about $60 retail and you can do better) and light and unless you're leading technical ice you don't need anything more.

[GeezerSteve]

Depends on foreseeable use. For general glacier travel and rappeling, a dry twin is sufficient, e.g., Bluewater Ice Floss 7.7 mm, which is my group's go-to glacier rope. You can double it up in twin mode for a short pitch of steep ice or rock.

If you go with a 7.7mm or 8mm twin, be sure that your belay device, prusik line, hero loop and ascender work with a rope that thin.

[alias_rice]

Just for descending? If so check out Imlay Canyon Gear. Good solid static lines. The 8mm rope is super light and small but you'd probably not want to use an atc on it. Pretty small line.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Beal Rando is another option.

and this:

If you go with a 7.7mm or 8mm twin, be sure that your belay device, prusik line, hero loop and ascender work with a rope that thin.

[adrenalated]

I use an 8mm x 30m Beal Rando rope. I also have some 9.1mm x 60m Beal Jokers that I could use if needed, but I'd rather use two 30m ropes if I needed to do a 30m rap. You can totally just a half or twin rope instead of a single since you're not taking real lead falls on it, but I'd still want dynamic rather than static. Beal does make an 8.5mm rope now that's rated as a single, if you wanted something with that rating...

[GeezerSteve]

The 8mm rope is super light and small but you'd probably not want to use an atc on it. Pretty small line.

ATC XP works fine (belay and rap) with 8.0 mm rope. I've rapped many times carrying a full 8-day traverse pack (up to 300 lbs. total) on 7.7mm Ice Floss with ATC XP. For a single line rap I run the line from the device exit around my hip and brake with the off hand.

[alias_rice]

ATC XP works fine (belay and rap) with 8.0 mm rope. I've rapped many times carrying a full 8-day traverse pack (up to 300 lbs. total) on 7.7mm Ice Floss with ATC XP. For a single line rap I run the line from the device exit around my hip and brake with the off hand.

I'm probably fatter than you. I'm also typically doing drops in the 100'-200' range as well so I like a device that allows friction adjustments on the fly. Probably overkill for skiing use though.

[GeezerSteve]

I'm also typically doing drops in the 100'-200' range. . .

I've done plenty (hundreds prolly) full or nearly full length raps on two 60m 7.7 or 8.0mm ropes. No prob. If doing it with an ATC XP makes you nervous, use a prusik/autoblock backup.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

JThe 8mm rope is super light and small but you'd probably not want to use an atc on it.

1 extra wrap with my backup/prusik works for me (atc guide). Definitely a good idea to test it on the nearest pull up bar/jungly gym/tree limb.

[alias_rice]

I've done plenty (hundreds prolly) full or nearly full length raps on two 60m 7.7 or 8.0mm ropes. No prob. If doing it with an ATC XP makes you nervous, use a prusik/autoblock backup.

I've done a handful as well but am much more comfortable using something like this.

http://bg-gear.com/store/index.php?m...roducts_id=161

But I also am typically going down single lines with cold fingers and I don't want to mess with an autoblock. Different applications though. Descenders are like skis, you need a quiver.

[GeezerSteve]

http://bg-gear.com/store/index.php?m...roducts_id=161

I'm not familiar with that device, although I note that it's spec'd for 8.0mm minimum rope diameter. Compare ATC XP spec for 7.7mm min rope diameter. Back to my point: IME ATC XP works fine down to 7.7mm rope for general mountaineering and ski mountaineering. If you haven't tried an XP you might be surprised how much bite it has on a skinny twin rope.

ETA: If the rope is being carried only for emergency raps, it's possible to single strand rap on a 6mm line with carabiner mulit-wrap method or Munter hitch.

[adrenalated]

How comfortable you'll feel on a rap with a skinny rope depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is how new and slick the rope is.

I've done raps on well-worn, skinny lines that felt way more secure than similar raps on brand new fatter cords with a nice slick dry coating.

Buy a device that's rated for the size rope you have, and PRACTICE somewhere with no consequences to get your shit dialed.

[rod9301]

Super munter works best.

[kalisto]

Few things.

1) Rapping on smaller ropes, my buddy (who weighs a lot more than me), swears by the Petzl Reverso. I'm on the BD ATC-guide, basically same as the ATC-XP with autoblocking... He's in the 200lbs range without gear. I'm in the 170 lbs range.

2) Who's rapping on single twin strands? Are you leaving the rope? Tag lining it? If you're on two ropes (which I would argue is most cases), and you are worried a reverso isn't enough, you really need to practice more, or maybe lose some weight.

3) Find one piece of gear you can use for as many applications as possible. This isn't rock climbing, you don't just throw everything in your haul bag.

[auvgeek]

^^Regarding your points:

1. Reverso 4 is only rated to 8.9 mm ropes. The ATC-Guide is 7.7. FWIW.
2. Some guys in Cham were showing me how they rap on a single strand attached to (what I'm pretty sure was) a fifi hook with a tag line that they pull to release the rope. Seems super sketchy to me. But they weren't young guys, so I guess it worked out for them.

OP: if you can get away with a static rope, you might consider Petzl's RAD rope. I'm thinking about grabbing one for glacier travel (in addition to my ice line).

[GeezerSteve]

if you can get away with a static rope, you might consider Petzl's RAD rope. I'm thinking about grabbing one for glacier travel (in addition to my ice line).

What's your thinking re a crevasse fall on a static rope? Are you counting on the crevasse lip to dissipate energy? What about significantly greater impact forces with a team arrest?

[auvgeek]

What's your thinking re a crevasse fall on a static rope? Are you counting on the crevasse lip to dissipate energy?

You know, I have definitely been concerned about that. I was thinking more for skiing unroped in crevassed terrain when you'd want each person to have a rope. It's nice there because it's so light and packable compared to a dynamic 30 m rope.

According to Petzl, you can use it for roped crevasse travel, but I would want to talk with someone more experienced to understand if the crevasse lip and the "belayer" (i.e., other rope-team members) moving during the fall really does dissipate enough energy.

https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/RA...M#.WNAy3xiZPUI
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/RA...M#.WNAz-xiZPUI

[alias_rice]

Few things.


2) Who's rapping on single twin strands? Are you leaving the rope? Tag lining it? If you're on two ropes (which I would argue is most cases), and you are worried a reverso isn't enough, you really need to practice more, or maybe lose some weight.
.

I frequently rap on a single line for various reasons. Mostly when using a retrievable anchor or to limit the amount of rope needed. If you have a max drop of 180', I can bring a 200' rope and a pull cord and save weight and space. But also if I'm dropping into water I may block one side so my rap line is exactly at water level. Makes a floating disconnect much easier. This is another reason I don't use an atc. I like a device where I can disconnect and not worry about it falling into water.

I'm guessing none of these really ever come into play though while mountaineering. Right tool for right job.

[GeezerSteve]

You know, I have definitely been concerned about that. I was thinking more for skiing unroped in crevassed terrain when you'd want each person to have a rope.

Oh, okay. For crevasse rescue only, a static rope is fine in theory so long as it's thick enough to ascend and for the team rescue system. (ETA: Mammut Rescue You is designed for 7.5mm minimum rope diameter.) I've skied unroped with all party members in harnesses and at least 2 ropes in the group. But in my 30+ years of carrying glacier ropes, I cannot recall a time when I didn't want the available option of roping up.

It's nice there because it's so light and packable compared to a dynamic 30 m rope.

I haven't seen the Petzel Rad but I know from personal experience that 7.7mm Ice Floss doesn't pack all that much bigger than 6mm perlon.

According to Petzl, you can use it for roped crevasse travel, but I would want to talk with someone more experienced to understand if the person moving plus crevasse lip really does dissipate enough energy.

Elasticity of crevasse lips ranges from several feet of dense snow (lots of energy dissipation) to ablated blue ice covered with a few inches of soft snow (virtually no energy dissipation) and everything in between. It's often impossible to see what you're dealing with from above.

[trogdortheburninator]

A lot of folks advocating pretty heavy ropes. For pure rapping, I have 2x30m edlerid 6 mm rap lines. They have a good handle for a rope that size, and dont tangle too easily if you are careful (i recently made the mistake of not being careful enough which was fun to untangle mid-rap). I split the two lines with a partner. If I think there is a chance of needing to lead something, I'd bring one of the 6s and a 30m x 7.8ish dynamic half rope. I rap with a bugette, and often will use a thin prusik for added friction. GOod thing about skiing is you always have a glove, which makes the skinny lines a little easier than bare handed. The new edelrid rap line II is also pretty intriguing. Adds 0.5 mm to the diameter, but has a dynamic breakaway back up that would make a nice safety net. Pretty cool.

[kalisto]

^^Regarding your points:

1. Reverso 4 is only rated to 8.9 mm ropes. The ATC-Guide is 7.7. FWIW.
2. Some guys in Cham were showing me how they rap on a single strand attached to (what I'm pretty sure was) a fifi hook with a tag line that they pull to release the rope. Seems super sketchy to me. But they weren't young guys, so I guess it worked out for them.

OP: if you can get away with a static rope, you might consider Petzl's RAD rope. I'm thinking about grabbing one for glacier travel (in addition to my ice line).

As per petzl's site... I think they write 'twin ropes 7.5' because you're not _really_ supposed to be using a twin as a single. That said, I've heard from numerous first hand accounts there's more friction in the reverso than there is in the ATC-guide.

from petzl:
Specifications
Rope compatibility: for half ropes (8 mm or greater diameter) and twin ropes (7.5 mm or greater diameter) and single ropes (8.9 mm or greater diameter)
Rope compatibility: for half ropes (8 mm or greater diameter) and twin ropes (7.5 mm or greater diameter) and single ropes (8.9 mm or greater diameter)

2. Some guys in Cham were showing me how they rap on a single strand attached to (what I'm pretty sure was) a fifi hook with a tag line that they pull to release the rope. Seems super sketchy to me. But they weren't young guys, so I guess it worked out for them.

Totally valid, but I bet those OGs aren't complaining that the ATCs they are using, or munter hitches don't have enough friction, nor are they asking which rope they should buy.

That said, for skimoing, I'm not a huge fan of the tag-line. I see it's purpose in other scenarios, but if i'm going to do that, i might as well just split the weight of a twin with someone else and have two totally functional ropes... vs having 1 function rope and some extra shoelaces for my boot liners.

[GeezerSteve]

A lot of folks advocating pretty heavy ropes. For pure rapping. . . .

To some extent we are talking past each other. Here in WA lots -- for many of us most -- ski mountaineering routes involve glacier travel. See comments in my previous post re team arrest and arresting a crevasse fall on a dynamic rope.

[trogdortheburninator]

To some extent we are talking past each other. Here in WA lots -- for many of us most -- ski mountaineering routes involve glacier travel. See comments in my previous post re team arrest and arresting a crevasse fall on a dynamic rope.

I was just trying to answer the OP (who resides in CO apparently) more specifically: Ullr said: "Once again, these are purely for rappelling into lines, or tying to someone while they cut a slope or stomp a cornice"

It seems like there is solid data/push towards skinny statics for glacier use as well. I think, like many things in mountains, such changes are slow to be adopted by some folks.