Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    66

    WINTERSTEIGER. Overrated?

    So are the wintersteiger tuning and ski service machines overrated and overpriced in your opinion? what other alternatives would you guys say there are to the wintersteiger brand? I'm looking into buying one of the wintersteiger Omega lines and a trimdisk 71. Also heard about the automated machines like the Scout 2 modules, but those are probably expensive like none other. Any alternatives to these guys you know of?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    The greatest N. New Mexico resort in Colorado
    Posts
    2,188
    Overrated? No. But most other manufacturers make a comparable product that i'm happy to work with.

    Wintersteiger makes a fantastic product, but at the end of the day what you really need to consider is how close your service tech is and how helpful they are. If you're around a bunch of ski areas and a bunch of shops run the same company, great, you'll probably see those guys a lot. If you're at a small area and you're the only one with a green machine, it might be harder to get those guys to come down when you have a major issue. There's a lot you can do with these machines over the phone, but having a good service technician is pretty clutch when you're looking at losing revenue from a downed machine.

    Alternatives? Montana, Reichmann, Snowell, etc. I would say Montana and Wintersteiger have the largest market share for a reason, they make good machines that put out a consistent product, and they generally have excellent service. Everybody makes a pretty comparable product, with varying levels of servicability and ease of use.

    If you're just going to buy one machine, its pretty hard to go wrong with a Sigma/Omega SBI. Monty and Reichmann both make nearly idenical machines that work jsut fine too. If you're going to buy two, get a stand-alone belt so you don't have to swap belts around all the time.

    If you're serious about buying a module system, just take into consideration that what they really excel at is putting the same tune on a hundred of the same ski, i.e. rental fleets. I used to work in a shop that ran a Wintersteiger Discovery SS (dual stone with edge module), and while it was really fun to work with, it didn't really save much time and effort compared to conventional machines when you start looking at different camber profiles, waist widths, bevels, etc. etc. And yeah, they're pricey. Also, when you start putting that many processes in one place, its more likely that the machine will need a little attention. Once you get them dialed in though, its pretty nice to just load a bunch of skis in and let the robot do the work.

    Trim disc 71 is a great workhorse ceramic edger for a small shop. Those things just don't quit. Somebody on gear swap was trying to unload one recently.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Teton Village
    Posts
    2,674
    ↑ Sounds like a sales rep. NTTAWTT

    The short answer: It depends on who you are.

    I worked in a shop when a big auto machine was purchased. It was all the rage for pedantic ski schoolers to complain how they could feel the errors in the automatic tune. Whatever. I think the grind wheels were accurate to something like .001" inch.

    The real difference is in the demo fleet and stock rental skis. In the past, the demo fleet was usually maintained by a neophyte from the rental shop looking to get into the tune shop next season. For years the demo fleet and rental skis were poorly maintained as it was done for free or not at all- all season. A guy would drink beer all night and perform lousy tunes on skis he didn't care about.

    Enter the $380K auto machine.

    Pedantic ski schooler is always going to complain about something, but the real difference is in the skis the ten day skier from Texas/Brazil is renting. Whereas as his ski may have been only tuned once a season (twice if you're lucky), it has an excellent tune and grind (maybe several times a season) and will perform considerably better- further encouraging the skier to return and spend $$,$$$ on a ski vacation.

    Pushing a few buttons and a guy can pick edge bevels and even base structure. Pretty wild.
    Ski Shop - Basement of the Hostel



    Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.

    Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Where everything's a dollar
    Posts
    2,683
    I think it's more the operator than the machine . I used to work for the company that owns (owned?) CSA/Snowell and VR had at least one (there were 2 in the shop at the Lionshead parking garage) of the big automated machines. They could do a variety of tunes but for the most part the machines were set on the rental fleet setting and they would just crank them through. Our lease deal with them included a charge per pair/snowboard and they got a discount once they hit a certain number each season. The machines were capable of producing a high quality tune but that meant the operator actually had to pay attention and spend some time on it. Wasn't anything you couldn't get from a cheaper manual machine or if you did it yourself.
    The Sheriff is near!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by ZomblibulaX View Post
    Overrated? No. But most other manufacturers make a comparable product that i'm happy to work with.

    Wintersteiger makes a fantastic product, but at the end of the day what you really need to consider is how close your service tech is and how helpful they are. If you're around a bunch of ski areas and a bunch of shops run the same company, great, you'll probably see those guys a lot. If you're at a small area and you're the only one with a green machine, it might be harder to get those guys to come down when you have a major issue. There's a lot you can do with these machines over the phone, but having a good service technician is pretty clutch when you're looking at losing revenue from a downed machine.

    Alternatives? Montana, Reichmann, Snowell, etc. I would say Montana and Wintersteiger have the largest market share for a reason, they make good machines that put out a consistent product, and they generally have excellent service. Everybody makes a pretty comparable product, with varying levels of servicability and ease of use.

    If you're just going to buy one machine, its pretty hard to go wrong with a Sigma/Omega SBI. Monty and Reichmann both make nearly idenical machines that work jsut fine too. If you're going to buy two, get a stand-alone belt so you don't have to swap belts around all the time.

    If you're serious about buying a module system, just take into consideration that what they really excel at is putting the same tune on a hundred of the same ski, i.e. rental fleets. I used to work in a shop that ran a Wintersteiger Discovery SS (dual stone with edge module), and while it was really fun to work with, it didn't really save much time and effort compared to conventional machines when you start looking at different camber profiles, waist widths, bevels, etc. etc. And yeah, they're pricey. Also, when you start putting that many processes in one place, its more likely that the machine will need a little attention. Once you get them dialed in though, its pretty nice to just load a bunch of skis in and let the robot do the work.

    Trim disc 71 is a great workhorse ceramic edger for a small shop. Those things just don't quit. Somebody on gear swap was trying to unload one recently.
    Super sick info! Ya I was interested in looking into Reichmann and Montana. The problem I had was the two Reichmann machines we had back in the repair shop I worked in was they always gave us the most amount of trouble, and our Wintersteiger was more consistent, normally. Montana I never had any experience with and it is nice to hear your opinion about it. I think that it is really a good thing to know. I am looking into buying for sure an edge grinder and a base stone/belt grinder, but I didn't think that the Omega SBI had an edge grinder on it, I guess it does?

    The module system would make sense in my situation, I would be running the exact same type of ski through the system in fleets... (me and my cousin are attempting at building our own skis) The thing is were not to sure if the module is worth the investment. Thinking of holding off on it unless we get a real more defined brand and actually start running a full handmade company.

    So do you have any knowledge of Wintersteiger's service techs vs other brands? They are all pretty similar in terms of availability. (Denver area) so lots of ski shops everywhere.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson View Post
    ↑ Sounds like a sales rep. NTTAWTT

    The short answer: It depends on who you are.

    I worked in a shop when a big auto machine was purchased. It was all the rage for pedantic ski schoolers to complain how they could feel the errors in the automatic tune. Whatever. I think the grind wheels were accurate to something like .001" inch.

    The real difference is in the demo fleet and stock rental skis. In the past, the demo fleet was usually maintained by a neophyte from the rental shop looking to get into the tune shop next season. For years the demo fleet and rental skis were poorly maintained as it was done for free or not at all- all season. A guy would drink beer all night and perform lousy tunes on skis he didn't care about.

    Enter the $380K auto machine.

    Pedantic ski schooler is always going to complain about something, but the real difference is in the skis the ten day skier from Texas/Brazil is renting. Whereas as his ski may have been only tuned once a season (twice if you're lucky), it has an excellent tune and grind (maybe several times a season) and will perform considerably better- further encouraging the skier to return and spend $$,$$$ on a ski vacation.

    Pushing a few buttons and a guy can pick edge bevels and even base structure. Pretty wild.
    Really nice information put out right there. I have to agree with you about someone complaining about something always hahah but I always thought the same, the reason people hated those autos was because they were associated with the demo fleet, always thought if someone put one of those things to work in a ski shop building skis that it may be really useful and overall a return on your money since you would be able to cut the work time so much. Just wasn't to sure if it really was worth it if you were not trying to tune a demo fleet, or if you aren't a huge company. Nice opinions heard altogether though! I personally think I'm going to go with the basic manual labor first and buy some used machines, then do a crap ton more research in the future and see if I could get a return on my investment, and some nicely tuned skis.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    66
    Sorry I had another question related and instead of making a whole new thread...

    Does anyone know if you can actually rent the machines for time periods? I'd probably like to do that if there is an option to get a feel for the different companies and machines to see which one fits my needs best, along with the cost right now in my situation for buying some machines would be kind of difficult

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,881
    Are you making skis or what are you doing ?

    a local guy up here is making skis so he found a used stone grinder put a little work into it and is getting good results
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Where everything's a dollar
    Posts
    2,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Zennan View Post
    Sorry I had another question related and instead of making a whole new thread...

    Does anyone know if you can actually rent the machines for time periods? I'd probably like to do that if there is an option to get a feel for the different companies and machines to see which one fits my needs best, along with the cost right now in my situation for buying some machines would be kind of difficult
    Have you been to SIA? All the manufacturers are there, probably the best place to see all the companies in one place without going to Europe. Again, I've been out of the loop for awhile but when I said CSA/Snowell was in all the VR locations that included their retail sites like Colorado Ski and Golf. That means they have techs in those shops...a lot.
    The Sheriff is near!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •