Sanity check - insert project

[sethschmautz]

Hey guys,

I could use another set of eyes on the insert location on my current project. I'm pulling off the markerfit plates that I've used for a while on two pair of skis and replacing them with a combo of beast 14 (inbounds/slackcountry) and radical 2.0.

The toe piece is the same for both bindings so I only need to drill 4 holes per ski for the toes. The heels need four holes each for a total of 8 heel holes per ski.

The pictures below show the toe and heels at roughly +1. The radical 2.0 holes for the heel are mounted for a bsl of 310 and the beasts for 316. My actual boot is a 320, but spyderjon recommends 4-5mm forward on the heel so screws are accessible without adjusting the binding.

I'm moving the radical heels forward to avoid being right in line with the existing holes. This leaves the closest holes at right 1cm center to center. Is this sufficient spacing?

I've always heard that you want to avoid holes running across the width of the ski in line with each other. Are the heel holes, even with their offsets, in danger of causing breakage?

Thanks in advance,

Seth

Toes:


Heels:
(Circled dots are radical 2.0)

[smooth operator]

Swapping between beast 14 heel and radical 2.0 heel? Why not just take either one and be happy... they're not that different..... imho

[sethschmautz]

Radical 2.0 has a flat touring mode and is roughly 250 grams lighter per foot. For inbounds/slackcountry, the beast seems to be a better binding (and I just received mind in the mail yesterday). However, for touring, especially long tours, I'd rather not carry around that extra weight...

Is the general concensus that 1cm center to center is okay or do I need to move things around a little more to accomodate 1.5 or 2cm?

Seth

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Inserts are so 2012, are people still doing this?

[NW_SKIER]

Inserts are so 2012, are people still doing this?

Yes.

Go hike bowl four or something if you're not going to help

[NW_SKIER]

One centimeter center-to-center and might be okay for a wood core ski, but I would be a little nervous about that with a carbon ski. That's just my opinion.

[sethschmautz]

One centimeter center-to-center and might be okay for a wood core ski, but I would be a little nervous about that with a carbon ski. That's just my opinion.

Any specific reason why? What do you think is safe?

Seth

[NW_SKIER]

Basing my thoughts mainly in what I've been told about multiple mounts on carbon pm gear skis. Might not be an issue for dps. I don't know for sure. I have some automtics that are inserted for g3 ion and marker duke, and I tried to maintain at least .5-.75 wall to wall on the inserts. I've never had any problems with them.

Its just a much larger hole, and can increase the likelihood of a broken ski if they are too close. Ymmv

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yes.

Go hike bowl four or something if you're not going to help

Okay. I think Seth's spacing will be fine given that he's using inserts which will provide support for the holes when not in use thus preventing a 'stress riser'. I think this is true whether the ski has a wood core or it doesn't. His skis have an aspen wood core, no? Use good epoxy and it will be fine with inserts.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks guys. Hardman's epoxy was the plan.

At one point I had a pair of Lotus 120s with about 30 inserts, and I think some of those were pushing this. I did not have any troubles with those, so was hoping for the same here.

I was planning on filling the existing holes with a plastic plug. In the past, I've epoxied those in also and cut off whatever protruded. Is there a better (stronger) filler? Wood dowel? I could fill those with inserts also, but I'm selling my plates so they wouldn't actually be used.

Seth

[NW_SKIER]

Small cut up steel wool strands mixed with epoxy.

[sethschmautz]

Small cut up steel wool strands mixed with epoxy.

I've heard this for fixing stripped holes if you want to reuse that hole, but are you using this alone to fill empty holes? Better than wood or plastic plugs?

Seth

[NW_SKIER]

With a wood dowel that doesn't quite fill the hole all the way, usually.

[skiSilent_skiDeep]

I've heard this for fixing stripped holes if you want to reuse that hole, but are you using this alone to fill empty holes? Better than wood or plastic plugs?

Seth

glue gun/ glue stick.
fills in quickly, nicely, and bonds well, holds up to the various applied forces while skiing, super easy tap-out with 5/32 bit, original threads uncompromised, never noticed evidence of water damage, successful remounts, never pulled out binding or spun/stripped screw/threads. ymmv

[dschane]

Okay. I think Seth's spacing will be fine given that he's using inserts which will provide support for the holes when not in use thus preventing a 'stress riser'. I think this is true whether the ski has a wood core or it doesn't. His skis have an aspen wood core, no? Use good epoxy and it will be fine with inserts.

I agree, and I've spaced things really tight (slightly tighter than the OP's project) without any issues.

[sethschmautz]

glue gun/ glue stick.

Unreputable online sources disagree on whether it's waterproof. I like the idea, but am hesitant about the execution. Currently, plastic plugs are the front runner (as I have these in hand) with wooden dowels behind (only because I DON'T have these). I'm thinking the plastic plugs will support the hole somewhat, but probably not as well as an insert.

Edited: Should have quoted Powfinder on original response.

[Spyderjon]

The plastic plugs epoxied in will be fine - I've used them hundreds of time in similar situations (ie carbon skis) without issue.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks guys. I think I'm good to go at this point. I might try to eek out a few more mm of space between holes, but I'll drill tonight and post pictures of the execution.

Seth

[Timberridge]

Take them to a dentist and he can fill them with a color matched porcelain filling.

[sethschmautz]

Take them to a dentist and he can fill them with a color matched porcelain filling.

Don't tempt me.

[Skirotica]

I have inserts that are nearly touching. Fks ans tlt. The skis failed before the inserts did. Will provide pics if interested.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks for the offer, but not necessary now. Just finished drilling both pairs. Closest are probably about 1 cm center to center give or take.

Mounted the beasts on one pair so I have something to ski while I get inserts in the other pair, then I'll drill and install inserts in the other.

Thanks to everybody who gave advice above.

Seth

[NW_SKIER]

Let's see some pics.

[sethschmautz]

Alright. Last night I got both pair drilled for beasts. One is now tapped for inserts which I'll put in tonight or tomorrow. The other pair has the beasts.

I'm a little concerned about the brake width. It was recommended to buy the 120 brakes which seems to collapse just small enough for the RPCs. I'm not sure this is going to work for my 99s. They may stick out a bit too far. We'll see when I ski them.

Seth

[sethschmautz]

Moar pics.

Had an unfortunate "ah ha" moment today. Spyderjon (who I bought the Beasts from and will be buying my Radicals from) has been saying for literally years that you need to mount the heels at +5mm so you can access the screws without changing the heel position on the track. In my mind, I was thinking of the +5mm like you would if you were mounting bindings at +1, etc. - moving forward on the ski. In this case, I was thinking "Oh, I must need to move the heel 5mm forward on the ski. . ." Nope. +5mm is related to bsl, not position on the ski.

I've gotten in two short skins/skis at the resort on the Beasts and am surprised that they don't feel THAT heavy, and they really ski well. Both descents were on ice/hardpack, and then I skied the rest of the day with my 4yo (hucking huge cliffs and skiing icy moguls). I'm a satisfied own and customer of Spyderjon's.

Inserts just went into the Wailer 99s last night and I'll probably do the same to the RPCs this week as I have time.

Seth