Used Subie advice needed

[TEXASS]

I own a 1997 Legacy wagon that has 250 K miles on it and Im ready to upgrade. Looking for another used wagon (outback)
Just a second commuter car to keep miles from piling up on my Chevy Truck .
I live in San Diego and would use the subie on occasion to drive to mammoth and Tahoe .

Im looking at 2000-2007 and wanted to know what I should stay clear of
I do know about head gasket issues, manuals are better than autos ect
What about Turbos? What about H6 vs H4 ?

Would be looking for something with around 150K miles on it. I also know about keeping the timing belt up to date.

Advice is appreciated

[TCNROMPER]

I've got a 2005 saabaru that I've put 187k on. It's the same as a wrx of that year. 2.0 turbo...no head gasket issues with those. Preventative plus a few things that rusted out from being on the east coast. Good and reliable. Manual with original clutch, next thing on the docket is replacing the original shocks and struts as well as the second timing belt @210K.

[uglymoney]

2000 to 2002 had issues with rear subframe rusting out. 2005 to 2009 have issues with rear end ghost walking on ice due to wierd rear suspension those years and many people report chasing the problem with mixed results. All of them potentially have rear quarter and rear rocker panel rust. Make sure it has had turbo or mls headgaskets installed no matter what year or plan on doing it yourself when you do the timing belt. I have an 02 with 200k/new shortblock. Rusty but runs strong but many new suspension parts and bushings and new shortblock plus lots of other tlc. Just took it on a 3k road trip and it ran like a champ.

Turbos are sweet and no HG issues but high mileage turbos or those not given 3k oil changes are ticking time bombs. Avoid unless you are a wrench. People love the H6 but they have the same junk HG problems and are far more expensive and time consuming to fix/replace when they break plus no manual available.

Find a rust free 2004 2.5L manual with turbo head gaskets. I'd drive it and make sure it has no input shaft bearing noises coming from tranny (high tinny noise). Take tight turns and make sure center diff isn't binding. Check rear subframe, rear rockers and rear quarter for rust. Purchase.

[jm2e]

Find one that just had the head gasket done.
Or just set a budget that includes $1500 put aside for future HG failure.
Honestly, even if you factor in the HG, Subaru's are still quite cheap and reliable when measured over the life of the vehicle.

[boarddad]

^ and timing belt, and power steering seal.

My 2008 Outback was going through a quart of oil every 800 miles or so. Passed smog, no visible leaks. Turns out the power steering pump seal was leaking PS fluid onto the engine oil seal destroying that seal and that's how the oil was getting out. Replaced both when I did the timing belt, problem solved.

Have to ask - If you want a commuter car to save miles on the truck, why not get a Volt or something like that that gets really good gas mileage? You don't need AWD to commute around SD. If you want the AWD for your trips to Mammoth (guessing), why keep the truck?

[concretejungle]

Do not get a turbo. I can say more if you have questions but I will say that my turbo lasted for more miles than any other I've seen and I'd never buy one again.

[mecc69]

2005 to 2009 have issues with rear end ghost walking on ice due to wierd rear suspension those years and many people report chasing the problem with mixed results.

I read about this before buying our '08. Car is rock solid on ice with Michelin X-ice, exhibits some of the ghost walking characteristics with all seasons. Lower your speed on ice with the all seasons and the car handles fine.

I am not convinced this is a suspension problem.

[uglymoney]

The problem is when you load back end it changes the toe because the ass end drops a bunch and changes geometry. Set the rear toe to zero and it should be fine but factory tolerance is minus ten to plus ten. There is a thread a mile long about it at subaruoutback.org. Factory issued revised rear toe at minus 5 to plus 5 or something like that for 05 to 09. In 2010 they changed rear suspension completely and no issues reported. Here is the link but read it at your own risk. A least 50 percent garbage information. http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...ad.php?t=30747

My o2 is set to zero rear toe with Megan racing toe and camber links and the toe bolts welded in place. Aligned it with a bunch of weight in trunk. Front end has all new bushings for the lower control arm, new sway links and bushings not to mention ball joints because at 100k they are about shot and only $26 for moogs. Xice3's. Baja turbo springs and kyb struts with another quarter inch spacer lift on rear.. Rally roo. http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...d.php?t=126769

[mecc69]

The problem is when you load back end it changes the toe because the ass end drops a bunch and changes geometry. Set the rear toe to zero and it should be fine but factory tolerance is minus ten to plus ten. There is a thread a mile long about it at subaruoutback.org. Factory issued revised rear toe at minus 5 to plus 5 or something like that for 05 to 09. In 2010 they changed rear suspension completely and no issues reported.

My o2 is set to zero rear toe with Megan racing toe and camber links and the toe bolts welded in place. Aligned it with a bunch of weight in trunk. Front end has all new bushings for the lower control arm, new sway links and bushings not to mention ball joints because at 100k they are about shot and only $26 for moogs. Xice3's. Baja turbo springs and kyb struts with another quarter inch spacer lift on rear.. Rally roo.

Yeah, I read that thread, and others. I've experienced "ghost walking" on ice. I still think it is 99% drivers overdriving the car and conditions. Most of the complaints I've read are from people running all season tires in winter conditions.

For me personally, it is very noticeable when running all seasons, but I am still going flow of traffic comfortably. Proper winter tires - no issue, like being on railroad tracks.

[uglymoney]

Agreed. A big deal for some, not others but something to be aware of.

[jmedslc]

Do not get a turbo. I can say more if you have questions but I will say that my turbo lasted for more miles than any other I've seen and I'd never buy one again.

???
Say more

[uglymoney]

They like to burn valves or otherwise blow up. Replacement engines are $ and hard to find.

[Ted Striker]

Back to the OP...

Have to ask - If you want a commuter car to save miles on the truck, why not get a Volt or something like that that gets really good gas mileage? You don't need AWD to commute around SD. If you want the AWD for your trips to Mammoth (guessing), why keep the truck?

^^^ This. At least for someone in So Cal.

3rd and 4th gen outbacks get shitty mileage, are loud on the freeway, are expensive to fix (even if you do it yourself), and although reliable enough, not even close to toyota corolla reliable.

If you are dead set on a subi, you might want to dig a little deeper into your pocket and look at a 5th gen. Sure they're fugly, but they are much more solid.

[uglymoney]

You mean 2nd and 3rd gen. Agree except parts are widely available discounted online and aftermarket. Not expensive IMO. 4th gen is a much better car.

[TEXASS]

I want another Subie. I could buy a Honda or Toyota and get better gas Mileage but I would like the option of driving either car (Subie or Silverado) up to the snow. I own a boat and land so a full size truck is a must
We are currently leasing a Volt that we have had for 3 years and I loved the car but we don't want another payment when it is returned next month
I realize I'm not going to get 40 mpg from a Subie but if gas was the issue I could get a motorcycle
So I am dead set on another Subie
I surf so putting a longboard on top and having room to sleep inside the car is a must


And- the wife doesn't know it but just like my last Subie I'm already planning on a four inch Sumo lift just Cause

[Ted Striker]

You mean 2nd and 3rd gen. Agree except parts are widely available discounted online and aftermarket. Not expensive IMO. 4th gen is a much better car.

Maybe I'm out of step with the generations... I think of the 89-93 as the 1st gen, but I guess that's not technically an outback.

So yeah, what I was referring to was the 98-09 generations. And I wasn't trying to disparage them, (I own one) but I'm in the PNW where that type of vehicle is very useful.

I agree about the internet making subi parts more affordable. What I was getting at is that you will do more big ticket stuff over the life of the car / or ownership. For instance, we had a toyota corolla alltrac wagon that was every bit as functional, and got significantly better mileage than the subaru it was replaced with. Other than the routine stuff, I never had to do anything to that car. If the body didn't rust to the point where there was nothing to left to weld to, I'd still be driving it. It went to the junkyard with 300K and the engine ran fine - and it had never been apart.

That vintage of subaru always has the potential for a big ticket time bomb like head gaskets or viscous coupler or auto-trans torque bind, or...

[Ted Striker]

I realize I'm not going to get 40 mpg from a Subie

You're not even going to get 30!

I surf so putting a longboard on top and having room to sleep inside the car is a must

Honestly, that sounds like a honda toaster ...err element to me.

If you're dead set on a subaru, and you want to be able to sleep in it, and you want to lift it, you might be better off with a 94-98 outback wagon. They have macpherson struts on all four corners, and the interior is a little bigger than the later years due to being a little boxier.

[uglymoney]

Yeah, gen 1 is 96 tk 99, gen 2 is 00 to 04, gen 4 is 05 to 09. Confusing for me because it doesn't line up with our 4R at alll.

Subaru is no Toyota that is for sure! We own two Yotas so that I can spend my time fixing the roo. With our huge box I get 22 on the freeway. 20 with a headwind and 24 tailwind. At altitude on mountain roads 28 is very common but never at sea level. 28 with no box in the summer is a very good tank and thst will never.happen at freeway speeds. The 05 to 09 get variable intake valve with the ej253 at least which helps mileage a touch over the fuel inefficient ej251/252.

[TEXASS]

I'm driving a 97 with a six inch lift now. Or was. Tranny went out. That's why I'm upgrading I'm stuck on a Subaru. I do know it will get around 20-23 mpg
I'm fine with that
I installed the lift and new struts myself on the 97. Have changed timing belts water pumps brakes etc.
I don't like the 200-2004 and anything over 2008 is too much money

So Subaru Outback. 2005-2007. Those are non negotiable
It is what I want

[uglymoney]

Gen 2 is ugly for sure! Camping at Arches a week or so back. Functionally ugly and payment is no money.

[Ted Striker]

Tranny went out.

If it's not rusty, why not get a used transmission and keep it?

[Ted Striker]

ugly for sure!

The ubiquitous gold bumper! Ours is covered with dog claw scratches.

[LHutz Esq]

Bad day to ask this question. Spent the day rewiring the hatch of the Mrs.' 06. Fixing things on a car doesn't bother me. Fixing things because they wanted to save 5¥ on an inch longer wire pisses me off.

[tenB]

I'm driving a 97 with a six inch lift now. Or was. Tranny went out. t

6" lift in a subie? Pics or it didn't happen

[TEXASS]

Here You go