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  1. #26
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    ^^^ exactly Cruiser

    Thanks to all for sharing your advise (and some personal experiences).

    BTW - we have discussed these issues (lifting and protein) with his pediatrician. His advise on lifting was to make sure the weight isn't too heavy (at least 10 reps with proper form) and protein (try to eat protein rich foods).

  2. #27
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    Teenage protein suppliment ?

    Squat, bench, deadlift, clean and jerk. Do it with him on a proper rotation. It's a lot of fun with a partner.

    There is nothing wrong with teen agers doing Olympic lifting for football if done correctly.

  3. #28
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    Worked for the Macho Man.


  4. #29
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    I don't see the logic in thinking a full contact, full speed sport like football is totally fine but squatting heavy sets of 3-5 is somehow dangerous.

  5. #30
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    I coach local 7-8 grade football team. It's amazing to see the development in kids 2-3 years later. His body will fill out when ready.

    As mentioned up thread nothing beats real food, but I don't see harm in a whey protein shake if it helps get quick calories in. Add peanut butter, oats, and banana. Casein protein before bed (cottage cheese if he can stomach it).

    Squats(quality reps above weight), pullups, push ups, dips, until he's a little older. I wouldn't worry about strength as much as speed and balance. Doesn't matter how big someone is if they can't catch you. Just my .02

  6. #31
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    Damn it, 70s Big used to have a great article about eating, but it seems the site is no more. This Dave Tate story is a decent substitute:

    There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn't gain weight to save my fucking life.

    There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like fucking magic. He'd go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.

    I finally asked him one day how he did it.

    "You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I'll fill you in."

    Now remember, we're at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we have to go outside, I thought.

    So we get outside and he starts talking.

    "For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don't care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That's your breakfast."

    At this point I'm thinking this guy is nuts. But he's completely serious.

    "For lunch you're gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don't want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don't care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can't let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter."

    "For dinner you're gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don't like sardines, don't put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it."

    "Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals."

    This guy is in a zen-like state when he's talking about this.

    "Now you're on the clock," he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you're full. Don't listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I'm telling you now, you're going to get three or four pieces in and you're gonna want to quit. You fucking can't quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

    And if you can't finish it, don't you ever come back to me and tell me you can't gain weight. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you that you don't give a fuck about getting bigger and you don't care how much you lift!"

    Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn't get much fatter. One of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, though.
    Obviously, that's a bit extreme, but the point is valid. Extra protein alone won't make anyone bulk up, you need a big calorie surplus. Total up everything he eats in a normal day. Have him eat double that for a month. If he's not gaining weight by then up it to triple the original amount. If if he's not uncomfortably full after every meal and eating isn't a loathsome chore he's doing it wrong. The higher the ratio of whole foods to junk food the healthier it will be. I wouldn't stress too much about healthiness though since this will be a temporary endeavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcsquared View Post
    I don't see the logic in thinking a full contact, full speed sport like football is totally fine but squatting heavy sets of 3-5 is somehow dangerous.
    Seriously. The idea that weight training is bad for kids this age has been thoroughly debunked. He can go completely nuts on bodyweight stuff, and reasonable amounts of well-supervised heavier work (stuff he can do for 3-5 reps) is totally fine.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 01-21-2017 at 06:03 PM.

  7. #32
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    Teenage protein suppliment ?

    Some good shit in here as well as the normal totally fucking stupid drivel from wyeaster.
    I really don't see the need to supp. protein as the kid is under 100lbs and should be crazy easy to eat 100+ grams of protein in natural food. Good point on Casein before bed. If you do add oats to a shake, it's a good idea to grind them into a powder first. Quicker absorption and easier to swallow.
    Back to my original post and what DTM said. It's all about calories in.

  8. #33
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    i'm sure if bo jackson had only taken supplements as 13-17 year old he wouldn't be saying stupid shit like he won't let his kids play football and if he had known what he does now he wouldn't have played.

    i'm all for supervised strength training that is age appropriate and not counterproductive to normal growth. it would not be justifiable to me to allow or encourage supplements, honestly, probably before 18. i don't see how, in addition to distorting basic nutrition for a kid, it is not conveying one way or another that your unique will, work and abilities are not enough to get you where you should be.

  9. #34
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    Are you fucking retarded? Nobody is encouraging supplements, as a matter of fact, everyone posting here has said the exact opposite.
    Good gawd you're a fucking idiot.

  10. #35
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    uh, no, i'm not retarded but it's nice to see another purported adult going to that well again. you've been seeming a little limited yourself lately. a little ragey. i suppose if you used your brain before you spouted it wouldn't be misplaced anger.

  11. #36
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    I typed that while laughing with a smile on my face, so no rage little sensitive flower.

  12. #37
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    Have you tried giving your son steroids yet ?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    I typed that while laughing with a smile on my face, so no rage little sensitive flower.
    hey! me, too, ragey sensitive flower! it's like we're family!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Are you fucking retarded? Nobody is encouraging supplements, as a matter of fact, everyone posting here has said the exact opposite.
    Good gawd you're a fucking idiot.
    I don't believe wyeaster was referring to anyone posting here but to the pressure to use supplements and other extreme training methods for children in certain segments of society (commonly referred to as "jocks") , pressure to which the OP seems to be succumbing. It is concerning that parents are willing to consider doing this and one has to ask whether succeeding in sports is the child's goal or the parents'. Too much pressure on kids to succeed at sports. Sad.

    So chill the fuck out.

    Maybe it's so widely known that it's not worth mentioning--but dietary supplements are not regulated by the FDA, meaning there is no assurance that what is claimed to be in the supplement actually is, or that what is in the supplement is not harmful. And there have been multiple exposes about outright fraud in the supplement business, beyond the lack of efficacy of the great majority of supplements.

  15. #40
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    Supplements are too hard on the liver, especially at that age.....don't do it. Whey protein isolate is a big culprit for liver disease........

    Food.
    Whole Milk milkshakes with real sugar or honey.
    Whole milk cheese
    natural Sourdough bread ( no yeast)
    Fatty steak ( 3-4 times a week max)
    Chicken thighs cooked in Butter or lard.
    Brown Rice builds muscle....
    Bacon, bacon fat to cook the 3 eggs a day he should eat.
    Broccoli, testro building
    all greens and all veggies.

    Papaya builds muscle, and builds the chest.

    banana milkshakes.

    Pineapple milk shakes.

    Ginger to help him feel hungry.

    good luck,.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkroll View Post
    I.


    Squats(quality reps above weight), pullups, push ups, dips, until he's a little older. I wouldn't worry about strength as much as speed and balance. Doesn't matter how big someone is if they can't catch you. Just my .02
    this ^^ if yer small use your speed & agility


    I worked with a guy (only 240lb) who was offensive center in the CFL which attracts washout NFL'ers trying for that one last go at pro ball BUT in Canadian ball you line up one yard off the ball which makes speed and agility a big asset, the 300lb guys with one move find it hard to get used to after a life time of playing the american game
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    ...but to the pressure to use supplements and other extreme training methods for children in certain segments of society (commonly referred to as "jocks") , pressure to which the OP seems to be succumbing. It is concerning that parents are willing to consider doing this and one has to ask whether succeeding in sports is the child's goal or the parents'. Too much pressure on kids to succeed at sports. Sad.
    I wondered how long until this was brought into the discussion. Are you a father of a "jock". I actually have 2....and working on the 3rd. I try very hard to balance what they want and what their mom and I want....It's not always black-and-white, cut-and-dry. When I see my son trying to gain mass for the past 16 months with no effect, I'll reach out to others for their advise. That's what this is about....gaining knowledge from a group of people I trust (to a point) and we consider it a learning experience for my son and I (he's reading these postings).

    BTW - as good as they are on the football, lacrosse, baseball, basketball, and slope....they are better students (which is what mom and I are most proud of....and being good classmates).

  18. #43
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    Meat and potatoes everyday. Stay away from any supplements for children that age.

  19. #44
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    BASE

    PhisioMetaphysics 101: Keep shit in balance. Especially with kids, try to condition the whole body.

    Aerobics before & after anerobics = less lactic pain + more benefits from both endeavors...shit like that. Some sports will mutate a body asymmetrically. Counter these things to build a more resilient body that doesn't shatter when stressed. A balanced body is going to hurt less over time. And look better too.

    Even if a kid is exceptional and driven, and in a sport with a narrow age window to get good or eat toast, like gymnastics, tennis, or skateboarding, it always always pays off to make and keep the entire body fit and balanced as possible.


    If kids can get that simple concept under their skin, they can make better choices and take care of themselves better all through life.

  20. #45
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    Teenage protein suppliment ?

    No idea on the supplements, I grew up in an agrarian household. And a late bloomer that didn't stop growing until I was in my mid-twenties. I was the little guy who grew to 6'2" and 200lbs lean. Quick and almost double-jointed saved my ass in high school PE, and my early career. I would focus on his reflexes, flexibility, and stamina both in mind and body. And as much good unrefined/unprocessed food as he can ingest.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorboy View Post
    I wondered how long until this was brought into the discussion. Are you a father of a "jock". I actually have 2....and working on the 3rd. I try very hard to balance what they want and what their mom and I want....It's not always black-and-white, cut-and-dry. When I see my son trying to gain mass for the past 16 months with no effect, I'll reach out to others for their advise. That's what this is about....gaining knowledge from a group of people I trust (to a point) and we consider it a learning experience for my son and I (he's reading these postings).

    BTW - as good as they are on the football, lacrosse, baseball, basketball, and slope....they are better students (which is what mom and I are most proud of....and being good classmates).
    One kid swam--slowly--and played water polo--good at making other people swim slowly. He never did supplements. Other kid played golf--impatiently--and then got into lifting and crossfit. He was using creatine for a while--after he turned 18-- as well as protein powder--he couldn't keep from losing weight by eating regular food alone. He used to go into work at 4am--do snow safety then patrol until 6pm then full gym workout, every day. He does do a fair amount of research on what he puts in his body from what I think are reasonably scientific sources. Anyway--I'm not worried about the danger of supplements with him--he sky dives, climbs, and has a pilot's license. Supplements are the least of my worries.

  22. #47
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    Good work gator, seems like you raised a couple good kids. If hes serious about putting on weight...which I don't know, he's 13 so don't sweat it. I put on 40 pounds and 7 inches the summer I was 13 just by sprouting pubes...anyway, eat more. That's it, eat more. Don't even have to get all paleo and super healthy...just keep it within reason health-wise but whatever it is, he will burn it off.

    And squats. Squats and squats and squats. Mix in deadlifts and the OLY lifts like 4m mentioned. Even if just getting form dialed in now, light weights on the Oly, for 2 years down the road itll pay huge dividends. But don't be afraid of some heavy squats now (the 10 rep thing became popular because that was just one of Arnold's popular rep schemes...but he switched them around like anyone else). Obviously make sure form is good but goes without saying...good luck
    Decisions Decisions

  23. #48
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    Fuck GNC. Eat right. Wrestle. Seriously. My almost 12 yo wrestled for five years, gave up to play basketball more. Took first in the state last year for age and weight. Looks skinny but is all muscle. We won't let him touch weights, he does non weighted exercises and has rock hard abs. He needs to eat more and better which we keep telling him. And he needs to run more. Other than that, time. Time is what will make those youngsters bigger. And stay away from football and lacrosse. :P
    I see hydraulic turtles.

  24. #49
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    Wrestling will likely encourage him to stay small.

    Dan John has a great quote about weight gain. I cant find it, but it amounts to, "You better never be hungry. You should be eating long before you ever feel the slightest hint of hunger. Before dinner, you better eat a sandwich to make sure you don't get hungry during dinner."

    One good idea is to have him use a calorie counter for a few days. Tell him not to alter his normal routines. Track what he eats and see how many calories hes been eating. I bet he isn't eating that much. Then have him eat 5,000 calories a day for a bit and see how he does.

    As far as supplements, calcium and vitamin D and E. And sleep, lots and lots of sleep.

  25. #50
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    Careful with the vit. D. Have his levels checked before supplementing it. Vit D toxicity is no fun.

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