Conveyor Method

[summit]

Ah, now I get it. BFD, that was from a different thread in a different forum... why are you posting it in here? You are really that bothered that several people were trying to give you friendly, helpful information when you presented yourself as a visitor from AK asking basic questions about "extreme terrain" and getting well known place names wrong? So you post up a random cell phone pics from who knows where with no information and think it proves something? If you feel so defensive about a friendly post in which I said I don't know the current intricacies of NSJ, then I'll suggest that you take a close look at your potential human factors red flag right there.

This thread is about strategic shoveling and Slide Zone is not about that kind of ego. So take it back there if you must continue.

[BFD]

My ski partner here who I value highly knows I spend too much time here. He asked for me not to post any photos so I buried the photo here because I figured you would see it and few others. Plus it involved a bit of shoveling. This photo is taken in the south san juans somewhere . It is pretty evident you statement that the southern mountains are continental as always is not correct. I am new to an intermountain snowpack but I am pretty sure 10 ft deep with wet rounding facets at the ground would be an intermountain snowpack. If I am wrong I imagine one of the professionals here will set me straight. I was trying to generate a conversation about snowpacks in other areas. I think allot of good things have gone on in the snowpack this year that may be atypical of colorado. I read the avie reports and I do not see anyone mentioning obvious signs of stability such as settlement cones. Is that only happening here. I doubt it. As far as my statement on Telluride I was just trying to find out what is skiable when you are at 150% of snow water equivalence. maybe many things are skiable that are not often skiable this time of year. Not every backcountry skier is a 20 something know it all from summit county with an airbag. I imagine there are some very experienced people in Telluride who enjoy skiing those types of lines and know how to do it safely. I would not base my decision to ski something based on tracks but i could possibly make the decision to drive all the way down there to check things out based on that.
strategic shoveling, always daylight your hole.
If you ever quarry blocks for a snow shelter the Voile Tele Pro cuts excellent blocks. making it a great expedition shovel.

[mecc69]

Maybe not relevant, but people that move material for hours on end (wildland firefighters) do not use shovels as the primary mover. They use hoe type devices because as far as my experience tells me it is bio-mechanically more efficient and easier on backs, etc.

Usually see a pulaski (narrow hoe) followed by wider hoe type implements.

Using a conventional shovel for long periods as a scraping tool to move material requires a specific motion that really relies on the knee as a leverage point with a long handle to be sustainable.

[covert]

Hey BFD and Summit,

Can we take that shit to another thread or a PM. A thread on this years atypical pack in CO would actually be quite valuable, give 'er por favor. My apologies if it already exists. Yes, the Southern San Juans frequently have an intermountain snowpack, as do other micro-climates in CO. Yes, Summit has some deep knowledge of typical Colorado snowpack, and probably shovels too. Yes, this is a different year for much of Colorado. That's my 2 cents, but I'm choking on Japow so feel free to disregard.

[BFD]

I think you are at Tsugaike. Glad you are getting snow my sons head over next week, I really doubt he has much expertise on anything. I will say the topic of shoveling is something I am an expert on.
. An early March expedition to Mount St. Elias was stopped by snowfall of 25 to 30 feet in a ten-day period. Another party never made it out of Yakutat because of the weather and flew south after waiting for five days. After starting on March 3, Alaskans Dave McGiven, Leo Americus and John Bauman gave up on the east ridge of St. Elias when new snow turned the climb into an exercise of survival

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/weath...#ixzz4WPVNylTI

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

........Another party never made it out of Yakutat ........

stuck in yakutat, possibly my worst AK nightmare ......... hope the Glass Door is open

[TahoeJ]

I'd be looking at the BD Evac 7 probably.

My avy 1 instructor had this shovel and I used it as a comparison to my own. Huge difference having the hoe mode and the d handle. I'll probably get one and leave my other shovel in my car as a backup or for a friend.

[LightRanger]

That's a useful data point. Thanks bud.

[cmcrawfo]

My avy 1 instructor had this shovel and I used it as a comparison to my own. Huge difference having the hoe mode and the d handle. I'll probably get one and leave my other shovel in my car as a backup or for a friend.

It may be wiser to equip your partner with the better shovel.

[summit]

Originally posted by BFD
I really doubt he has much expertise on anything. I will say the topic of shoveling is something I am an expert on.

1. Stop harassing me via PM.
2. I've met many in this thread in person, but not you... I was never rude to you either... your anger is very confusing. Since you haven't taken this truly baffling insecure vendetta elsewhere: I have

[TahoeJ]

It may be wiser to equip your partner with the better shovel.

Ha. Indeed.

I posted before reading the flare up in this thread, and I'm honestly a little shocked anyone would dismiss the usefulness of the hoe mode. I will challenge anyone to a dig out contest using a hoe mode shovel vs one without it. And you have to dig a wide enough platform to actually extract a human, which is a huge part of the equation in this discussion. Clearing snow out of the way is just as important as digging into it.

[mattig]

I don't read the avy forum much as I have yet to begin the BC addiction, but I have started assembling gear for when it inevitably happens. I got the evac shovel and would chime in that hoe mode rocks... a lot. I've used it quite a bit, digging benches, pits, and playing with my kid on snow days. There's no question hoe mode moves snow very quickly. Engagement of the lock button is a bit finicky outside the living room, as I'm guessing can be the case with many BC shovels. The curved handle doesn't play nice with interior compartments of my pack (because the curve is perpendicular to the "D"). Ski-strapping it into the ice axe holster works well.

[summit]

In rescue drills, spent good focus on shoveling, saw some shovels break... and played with hoe mode. I have to say, I do think hoe mode has a lot of utility. I'd stop short of saying is a requirement, but I think it has more utility than I think I gave credit for in my previous post.